Results from the range............45 cal.

[Richard]

Well, I did a little alteration on the load I shot last week which was a 16/54 duplex___N-110/N-130. This week I upped the starter to 17 gr. and dropped the main charge to 53 gr. The results are shown on targets 1, 2 and 3. The velocity jumped from a 2885 average to 2900 fps average. That is for a saboted 200 gr. bullet. Shot sabotless (target 3) the velocity dropped 120 fps.
The Lead Sled is working just fine and the new chronograph is not missing a shot (only when I forget to turn it on ) Three shot groups at 300 yards are still staying sub MOA with five shot groups right at 4 to 5".
A couple of loads did not look promising so were limited to three or four shots. By and large the rifle likes speed and 200 gr. SST's and 195 Barnes. Sabotless? The 200 gr. Hornady FTX hands down!
Richard

[Dave W]

Interesting how much speed was lost after the misfire. I shot a couple groups mixing the powders once but I did not get to time the results due to rain.

[kevin k]

nice shooting Richard and nice report as usual how dos the 200ftx work with the 5744-322 duplex and have you tried the 250 ftx with it?thanks kevin k

[sw]

I think MOA shooting @ 300 yds with hunting bullets at 2800+ f/sec is "having arrived".

[whyohe]

very nice shooting and info richard. didnt you ask or make some statement of why sabotless shots 120FPS slower than saboted? i seem to not be able to find it now.

[twister]

Richard.Do you think the 200 Gr FTX would work as a white tail deer load? Do you have any idea what the FPE is for these bullets at 200 yards? I just started shooting sabot less this past week.I'm trying to find a good white tail load.I have been getting good accuracy with the 300 gr SW and H4198.I do have the occasional vertical shot that goes out of the group.Usually it goes about 2 inches low.It does not seem to be related to velocity,which was my first thought.I'm thinking it might be my bench technique. I would love to find a sabot less duplex load that would work.It would just give another level of security about dependability. Thanks for your help.Twister

[Richard]

Kevin k....Yes I have shot duplex's with 5744/322 with both the 200 and 250 FTX :
200 FTX 13/60 gave 2701 fps with a 6" (all horizontal)(1.2" vertical) five shot group at 200 yards. Probably wind.
Same bullet with 15/55 duplex at 100 yds. gave 2683 fps and a 1.6" five shot group.
14/55 with a 250 FTX gave 2552 fps with a 1.7" three shot group.
What you might want to do Kevin, is to book mark my reports when I put them on the forum.....then you can go back a look thru them. I am shooting so many different loads, that it takes me some time to go back thru my book and pick them out. Hope these help.
SW.........Thanks About time after my struggles with the .50
Whyohe........I think it went something like this: As this copper jacketed bullet,which has been sized small and then knurled up, gets pushed down the bore (it only grabbing MAYBE .002" total of those little KNURLIES on both sides of the bullet), it is wearing and compressing those little pieces of copper which were knurled up. By the time it reaches the powder, it has very little spring back left and hence relatively loose. On the other hand, a sabot continues to try to expand all the way down. I get the same feeling when I start a sabot and when it bottoms out! Not so with sabotless. The bullet is always looser at the bottom then at the muzzle. I actually have to put my chin on my two hands with my short spin-jag starter to get the sabotless bullet to engrave the rifling. Once it does, the ramrod easily pushes it down onto the powder. LESS pressure is built up initially and hence less velocity.
If I could have a custom lapped barrel made specifically for sabotless, I would have the reverse of what is generally preferred in a centerfire barrel. That is, tighter at the muzzle than at the breech. The sabotless barrel should has a slightly looser muzzle (maybe by one or two ten thousandths) and a tighter breech end. This way the bullet would tighten up the closer it got to the powder
Twister: Yes, I think the 200 FTX would be an excellent whitetail load. Particularly if shot at the velocities I have indicated. I just checked the ballistics with JBM and using a BC of .220, that 200 FTX starting out at 2900 fps, is still doing 2111 fps with 2,000 ft. lbs. of energy. 1765 fps at 300 with 1384 ft. lbs of energy. Need I say more? If you look at target #3, you will see a duplex that works for me!
Richard

[twister]

Thanks Richard.I going to get some 200 Gr FTX and try them. I really like the idea of a duplex load sabot less. I know there are several on the board that have never had a misfire with the single loads. I think that is testament to there loading a properly fitting bullet to there barrel.I had my first misfire today,and now I'm more concerned then before. Today I was using a 250 gr SW with a 1/8 inch wool wad. It felt OK when I loaded it. Not the tightest, but as tight as the loads I have been shooting for the past week. The loads I have been shooting were 300 Gr SW with.60 veg wad. At this point I'm not sure what happened,but I'm a little suspicious of the wool wad. I know that it has worked well for some,but I think the the veg wad allows you to pack the powder a little better,and perhaps it might even tend to offer a little More resistance. I'm new at this,so I'm wide open for suggestions. I would like to thank every one on the board for there help. I'm going to get this sabot less shooting thing sooner or latter. It sure has been nice not waiting between shots. Twister

[Richard]

Twister........I can tell you another thing I am going to try next week? Two (2) .060" veggie wads I will shoot two groups in a row using just one and then two wads and see what the chrono and target shows?
What I would really like to have is a maybe a .100" wad made out of the same material as the blue Harvester sabots! I believe that would give a really good seal. I realize one could cut off the petals on a sabot and use just the base, but that gets to be a hassle. Just a shortie sub base! Come on Harvester? How about it?
Richard

[Dave W]

Sept 2, 2009 19:46:05 GMT -5 twister said:

Thanks Richard.I going to get some 200 Gr FTX and try them. I really like the idea of a duplex load sabot less. I know there are several on the board that have never had a misfire with the single loads. I think that is testament to there loading a properly fitting bullet to there barrel.I had my first misfire today,and now I'm more concerned then before. Today I was using a 250 gr SW with a 1/8 inch wool wad. It felt OK when I loaded it. Not the tightest, but as tight as the loads I have been shooting for the past week. The loads I have been shooting were 300 Gr SW with.60 veg wad. At this point I'm not sure what happened,but I'm a little suspicious of the wool wad. I know that it has worked well for some,but I think the the veg wad allows you to pack the powder a little better,and perhaps it might even tend to offer a little More resistance. I'm new at this,so I'm wide open for suggestions. I would like to thank every one on the board for there help. I'm going to get this sabot less shooting thing sooner or latter. It sure has been nice not waiting between shots. Twister

If you are not opposed to shooting the 250 SW then you may want to try something similar to what Chris Champion shot with duplex.
dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=smokeless&thread=1701&page=1
I shoot something very similar with the 250 SW/SST but I use a 59gr load at 2575fps.

[twister]

Thanks Dave. I just wrote it down. I will try it. Richard I will be watching for you post next week.I hope it works well. Twister

[shooter]

Richard,Great reports and Shoo tin. :)I like the speed your getting with that duplex that awesome.

[kevin k]

yes it does Richard im going to book mark also thanks alot cant wait to see if any speed diff with two 060 wads thanks. kevin k