Smokeless M.L Load Data

[ryan]

Hi guys new to the forum



I am building a new smokeless M.L. via a short action savage with a 50 cal bore



I was looking though the smokeless data on this site and have a question:



I am shooting a .358 bullet in a sabot that is then in turn in another sabot (duplex) before you say that doesn't work or what not, you just know this part is not new to me been shooting them for years soooo.



Question is there is no smokeless data for a .357 or .358 in the "Load Data" pages It says it would be updated in the future. I do not want a duplex powder load Just 1 simple powder load that moves it along in the lower 2000'S FPS. Shooting the Barnes TTSXBT with a 200 grn bullet.



Read more: dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/21612/new-smokeless?page=1#ixzz68UTuumdF

[sw]

I shot the PB dual sabot 357, 195g bullet in the early 2000s. Lower loads of gentle powders worked well. 40-42g 4759 and a load of 2015, but I forgot the grains. The 2015 worked better. It was quite accurate.

[thelongrider]

What would be the advantage of shooting two sabots with a .357 cal. bullets in a smokeless gun? I would think the sabots would blow even with a mild load of smokeless powder. Years ago searching for flatter shooting bullets with triple 7 I ran across Cecil Epps dead center bullets and shot those for a while and even tried his duplex sabots ,but never had any luck with that stuff. I think You would be much better off building a .45 or even a .40 and shooting sabotless and having the luxury of a much larger window to operate in. With the duplex sabot load your kinda limiting yourself and may not be able to get any more speed than using black powder. Just my opinion.

[ryan]

ok Thanks for the info. New to this smokeless game and the 50 Cal is built and done soooo I am stuck with it for now
thanks again

[sw]

Dec 19, 2019 1:57:03 GMT -5 thelongrider said:

What would be the advantage of shooting two sabots with a .357 cal. bullets in a smokeless gun? I would think the sabots would blow even with a mild load of smokeless powder. Years ago searching for flatter shooting bullets with triple 7 I ran across Cecil Epps dead center bullets and shot those for a while and even tried his duplex sabots ,but never had any luck with that stuff. I think You would be much better off building a .45 or even a .40 and shooting sabotless and having the luxury of a much larger window to operate in. With the duplex sabot load your kinda limiting yourself and may not be able to get any more speed than using black powder. Just my opinion.

You are entirely correct. The 195g, dual sabot bullet was a dead center bullet. A 45 is better, a 40 is better yet. However, back then, I had a 50 and that’s what I tried. Additionally, his 240 or 260g bullet shot well with larger amounts of slower powder shooting 2400ish.
I’m currently just starting to test a 225g AccuMax shooting ~2800 out of my 40 cal 10ML2/40 PacNor. I think, if it proves to be accurate, which I think it will, it will be my primary deer rifle.

[jims]

Will be watching with interest on these developments.

[sw]

I think that Precision Bullets have more potential than they’ve been given credit.

However, there are many better, more modern bullets for 50 cal.

[thelongrider]

The dead soft lead that was used in the 35 and 40 cal. just doesn't do well at higher speeds for me anyhow. If I was forced to shoot a 50 cal. gun I would choose a 45 cal 250 gr. Pittman Accumax with 70 gr. of H4198.

[edge]

My $.02

Using the RBinAR rule, the bullet needs to be withing 0.050 of the bore diameter at smokeless speeds when shooting normal sabots.

In a 50 that means a .45 bullet.
The base of the sabot is not strong enough to support the bullet, and bad things happen

The bullet may simply drill the sabot.
The bullet may yaw in the bore and be inaccurate.
The bullet may not have enough surface area friction to spin with the rifling, etc.

There are ways to overcome these, but most are not worth the trouble, IMO.

In a Savage barrel, the Hornady SSP .358 180 grain bullet, is about the length to diameter you can shoot.
Forget a copper bullet, they will not stabilize with the Savage barrel twist.

If you want to shoot duplex, and unless you can machine your own sabots out of a more rigid material:

I would cut the bottom out of the inside sabot;
add an aluminum .45 washer inside the outside sabot for support;
then load the inner sabot and bullet.

Good luck with your quest, edge.

[ported45]

Pretty narrow window of what will work. Much broader selection of workable recipes when the bullets get closer to your bore size.

It may not be new to you to shoot .358 in a .50 bore, but sounds like smokeless is new to you. Most of these guys are a WEALTH of info on shooting smokeless and that is because they have been there and done that with smokeless.