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Post by hoobilly on Nov 26, 2019 7:30:06 GMT -5
question on how are you applying the bullet seating pressure on your SML?
I have a encore Bergera 45/70 older slufoot conversion barrel I bought a year ago. Im not getting proper pressure on the H4198 powder and will get a dud every 3-5 shots
this is with a clean breech plug etc. Have been using the CCI magnum 209A primers and have Federal 209A primers coming hopefully yet this week
blue harvester crush sabot & 200gn Hornady SST's using a 3 piece rod from Arrowhead and a spinjag
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Post by ET on Nov 26, 2019 8:52:00 GMT -5
question on how are you applying the bullet seating pressure on your SML? I have a encore Bergera 45/70 older slufoot conversion barrel I bought a year ago. Im not getting proper pressure on the H4198 powder and will get a dud every 3-5 shots this is with a clean breech plug etc. Have been using the CCI magnum 209A primers and have Federal 209A primers coming hopefully yet this week blue harvester crush sabot & 200gn Hornady SST's using a 3 piece rod from Arrowhead and a spinjag I believe you will find your problem is not enough load tightness to support a good ignition start. For powder compression I give it a push that requires some effort. In this case you might want to consider a duplex to get 4198 off to a good burn start. Ed
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Post by BuckDoeHunter on Nov 26, 2019 13:45:33 GMT -5
I use a firm seat, two hands on the ramrod. IIRC, that breech plug takes a 5/32 drill bit to clean all the carbon out of the flash channel, do you clean the plug with a drill bit? What amount of 4198 are you using and at what temp? After the shot, are the primers sooty or clean? Your not using these primers are you? The box should say 209 shotshell and not in-line.
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Post by sw on Nov 26, 2019 14:50:28 GMT -5
I like the CCIm and Win 209s. The Fed209A is hotter but fouls the BP much quicker. Drilling out the BP is important. A popular load is 10/50 of 4759/4198 10/50. 2700’/sec. I use VV110 as opposed to 4759. This will give a somewhat higher speed. 5744 will work also, but will be slower. This is a duplex load with the easier to ignite powder put in first. A wool wad or a vege wad under the sabot will help obturation faster. A lightly knurled bullet can help in a # of ways. How much 4198 were you using?
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Post by hoobilly on Nov 26, 2019 19:19:11 GMT -5
thanks guys for your replys
I will definitely try using both hands and pull push down hard to make sure its tight.
The CCI primers are the magnum series and not for inlines. I do have Federals on the way. ordered from muzzleloaders.com 500 count.
I have cleaned the breech plug several times as the duds misfires what have you, really dirty the bore and breech I use the drill bet etc
the feller I bought it from used mainly 4198 and only had one misfire ever. 55 grains of H4198 and when he shot duplex it was 10 N110 and 45 of 4198
bought it so that I would get my feet wet with the SML's and hope to upgrade to a MGM with ASG doing the conversion for me.
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Post by hunter on Nov 27, 2019 18:57:03 GMT -5
The smooth blue harvester sabots may work better also, they seem to load tighter in my 45's
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Post by normrep on Nov 28, 2019 6:54:22 GMT -5
+1 for the Harvester smooth blues. Slufoot conversion here in an Encore Katahdin barrel. With the Hornady XTP's or SST's it takes two hands to put the bullet and sabot down the barrel. It's a tight fit and as others have said a firm two hand seat on the powder. No veggie wads. 55 grains of H4198. Winchester primers. No misfires. 2300 fps. Plenty accurate.
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Post by sw on Nov 28, 2019 10:20:06 GMT -5
55g H4198/200g bullet will be getting a pressure range low enough to start getting some serious temperature sensitivity. The time proven load of 10g of VV110 or 4759 or 5744 under 50g of H4198 . Benefits: it will not misfire, it is very accurate, better trajectory than slower loads, less temp sensitive than straight powder loads, more energy whether good or bad. Great alternative load: extremely accurate and clean, lower recoil, very low ES, good velocity, absolutely not temp Sens - same point of impact whether 10 or 80 degrees, simple ——-37g VV110/195B or 200SST or 225 Pittman (resized to 4000-4005). 2530-195B, 2510 - 200SST, haven’t chrono’d 225 Pittman.
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Post by normrep on Nov 28, 2019 11:12:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply SW. I just found 3 lbs. of VV N-110 and interested in trying the duplex load you mentioned. Also, what is a good starting load with N-110 if you're shooting it straight with a 200 grain SST. Would a 200 grain XTP work with your recommended load of 37 grains also, especially for deer hunting. Shots around here are 100 yards or less most generally. Wondered what your experience has been. Always interested in hearing what everyone else is doing and looking for new ideas. Didn't know 4198 was on the low end for pressure. I have not had issues, but I have also not been hunting in extreme cold yet either.
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Post by sw on Nov 28, 2019 20:05:23 GMT -5
You’d be hard pressed to do better than 37g VV110,195B - lightly knurled, wool wad, HLBS. Sighted in at 1-2” high @ 100 yards. 1” low at 15. If it hits it, it will die. 200SST or 200XTP will work, just less well. The 200SST did this 3 weeks ago. ]
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 29, 2019 13:48:29 GMT -5
How does a wool wad make a difference ? I have used both N120 and H4198 with this bullet/sabot combo with sub .750 accuracy at 100 yards . Will a wool wad make that much of a difference ? Only shot 2 bucks with the Barnes 195gr. and N120 sighted 2" high at 100 and , yes , they died " very quickly " ! Several deer shot with the 200gr. SST also died almost as fast . Fast is good where ever you hunt . Chris
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 29, 2019 16:54:56 GMT -5
N110 is way faster than N120 so its hard on sabots. Rise to peak is much faster. Most guys run into sabot problems by 35gr of N110 in a 45cal.
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 29, 2019 17:12:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the info . I will give wool wads a try in my .50 Savages with N110 ... this may be the answer to my search for " 3 touching " accuracy with the Savages . Probably not . Chris
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Post by sw on Nov 29, 2019 18:41:42 GMT -5
Chris, Make sure the barrel is squeaky clean. JB bore cleaner works well. Lightly knurled bullets. Wool wad or vege wad between sabot and powder. Have never had a problem with 37g of VV110 in 45 and 45g in 50 cal with 250 SST, SW, XTP or Barnes TEZ. Knurled and wads. Start with 42 g and work up if desired. The older manuals had 44g +/- 2 g for 250 and 300g bullets. Later books had 44g max. Knurling and wads probably make the difference. I’ve always used wads and knurling. Never a problem. Vv110 is a great powder for 45 and 50s.
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 29, 2019 19:54:39 GMT -5
Thanks ! Chris
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Post by tbye3300 on Dec 1, 2019 21:30:22 GMT -5
You’d be hard pressed to do better than 37g VV110,195B - lightly knurled, wool wad, HLBS. Sighted in at 1-2” high @ 100 yards. 1” low at 15. If it hits it, it will die. 200SST or 200XTP will work, just less well. The 200SST did this 3 weeks ago. ] I've shot alot of loads in my 45 but I always go back to the 37 grains VV110 with 200 SST or XTP. It has never failed me and recoil is very minimal. Though I live in Nebraska my shots are usually within 200 yards. IMO just hard to find a better powder then VV N110
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Post by hoobilly on Dec 5, 2019 22:29:15 GMT -5
This morning I bought some N110
Duplexed 45-H4198 & 10-N110 Third shot went poof. Feller on another forum mentioned that I should just use straight N110 as some suggested here.
My H4198 is definitely bad. Has a slight ammonia smell and gummed up the barrel pretty bad.
So I did the 35gn N110 and shot 6 in a row. Cracks like a rifle
Went back late this afternoon and shot it to make sure it was on. 2” high at 100
Now I need to shoot at 200 to make sure what my drop is
Thank you all who helped. Great group of guys and I appreciate it all
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Post by hoobilly on Dec 5, 2019 22:33:08 GMT -5
Here’s my Thanksgiving Buck. Had to use my 243 Steyer as I wasn’t gonna take my sml poofing 😂
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Post by sw on Dec 5, 2019 23:19:26 GMT -5
Very nice deer! Congratulations. I shot some today. 37g VV110, wool wad, knurled 200 SST, HLBS, CCIm 209. Consistently 2530’/sec. I’m sighted in at 2 1/2” high at 100 yards. 1 - 1 1/2” low at 200. A 060 vege wad or a wool wad pretty well insures no problems. 100s of shot with this load: never a problem.
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Post by hoobilly on Dec 5, 2019 23:33:22 GMT -5
Very nice deer! Congratulations. I shot some today. 37g VV110, wool wad, knurled 200 SST, HLBS, CCIm 209. Consistently 2530’/sec. I’m sighted in at 2 1/2” high at 100 yards. 1 - 1 1/2” low at 200. A 060 vege wad or a wool wad pretty well insures no problems. 100s of shot with this load: never a problem. Feller I bought this barrel from shot it for close to 10 years with the same sabot bullets etc with good H4198. I just happened on bad powder and it stumped me for a while. Thanks on the deer. I get buck fever every now and then and let the lead fly when I do. Funny thing is when I do get the fever it’s always a smaller buck
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