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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 13:45:05 GMT -5
I apologize in advance because I'm sure this has been asked 1000 times but I'm at a loss. I can not get either of my savage 10ml ii to group. I own 2 and can not figure out what to do. Everyone I know shoots n110 with 250gr hornady bullets with the high speed hornady sabots and cuts holes at 200 but It doesn't work in my guns. I did read where on a wood or laminate stock that the action screw should be between 45-65lbs. Any truth to that. I've always kept mine at 25lbs. Also, both of my guns throw them all over if I try to shoot back to back times. I've given 20mins cool time in. Between shots and same result. Any advice is appreciated.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 6, 2019 14:30:39 GMT -5
Have you tried other sabots with the Hornady bullets? If you are talking about the red Hornady sabots those are likely way too small loaded OD for your bore.
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 14:33:24 GMT -5
I shot black mmp and had a hole that looked like the bullet tumbled. Have not noticed that with the hornady sabots
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 6, 2019 14:56:09 GMT -5
Hornady red sabots are around .500-.501 loaded OD. That is way too small for most Savage bores. If they feel snug in yours i would try the Harvester EZ-Load smooth black sabots for "upto 300gr bullets" That would be the next size up in loaded OD. In general the Harvester sabots are a bit tough and handle barrel heat a bit better. MMP makes all the sabots for Hornady. MMP HPH-12 used to come with many of the Hornady bullets. Now most use the MMP 3 Petal-EZ but its dyed red instead of black. MMP makes 4 black sabots and all 4 are different loaded OD. Smallest to largest 3P-EZ HPH-24 HPH-12 MMP Short Black (Savage Recommended) Harvester Harvester EZ-Load (smooth) Roughly the same size as HPH-24 but shorter. Harvester Red CrushRib (Smokeless) Close to MMP Short. Slightly smaller loaded OD.  |
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 15:09:18 GMT -5
The harvester sabots, They are short sabots? Is short the way to go? I've heard the long sabots (like I shoot) can make the bullet tumble but i had tumbling with the short mmp. And any advice on the action screw. I have one savage with a laminate Boyd's stock and the other is the factory wood/laminate. I see some people saying 25in lbs no matter what stock you have and some say higher in lbs for wood and laminate stocks
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 6, 2019 15:15:18 GMT -5
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 15:20:59 GMT -5
I just ordered the harvester sabots. I appreciate all the input. I'm at a total loss so I'll try anything. I'm at the point that I'm ready to sell one of the savages and get a cva paramount and see how it goes
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 15:25:37 GMT -5
42 gr of N110
And I will add I can only get a consistent gauge or accuracy if I only shoot the gun once a day. This may because it burns hot and is hard on the sabots? I have no idea
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 6, 2019 16:53:19 GMT -5
Not sure but if its sabot stress related or fit related the Harvester sabot should help. Normally guys go with the Red Crushrib because it fits much tighter. Once in awhile a tight Savage bore pops up but its rather uncommon on later models. I had one but it still liked sabots around .505-.506 loaded OD best. The MMP Orange 50x458 shot really well in mine.
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Post by ET on Oct 6, 2019 16:55:54 GMT -5
Sika2019
Where to start with someone who has no real familiarity with the 10ML-II?
Okay, what are your group sizes?
What ramrod are you using?
What primers are you using?
How tight would you say your bullet/sabot load is?
To begin with give your bore a good cleaning.
Clean breech plug of carbon fouling and check vent orifice/hole for size.
Before installing BP run a bullet sabot down the bore looking for any loose spots.
Examine land impressions on sabot for straight and well-defined lines.
If all is good shoot a 3-shot group and measure it’s size. At least give a 10min. rest between loading and shooting the group from a cold bore.
Ed
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 6, 2019 16:59:33 GMT -5
Lots of smokeless barrels like to be shot dirty too. Some wont even settle in until you got 5+ shots in them with the cleaner powders like N110 which is super clean.
If you are swabbing at all with N110 DONT. I sight mine in a week (verify actually) or so before hunting and it dont get cleaned until im done.
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 17:07:34 GMT -5
I'm shooting cci magnum shotshell primers. And the ramrods are whatever came with each gun, and each are different but I'm assuming the one on the gun I just purchased is the correct one. Seems a bit nicer than the other one. My old savage would group decent but never tighter than 4 inches at 100yds but then this year it started throwing them all over again. So I found another "used" ml ii at a local gun shop so I bought it to see if i could get anything better. I'm fairly sure this gun has barely been shot if at all. Well I had it boresighted and started shooting it at 25. I got it to 1 inch low and 1 inch to the right at 25. I went back today and shot it at 100yds. I never touched to scope after my final 25 yd shot I missed the paper entirely.
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 17:10:41 GMT -5
And I've always heard the same thing about shooting dirty. And I agree, but I have heard the argument about plastic build up so I have to agree with that to a degree as well. But I always have shot a "dirty" gun
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Post by jims on Oct 6, 2019 18:32:44 GMT -5
Many things can cause that but my groups get bad if the vent liner hole gets too enlarged, for me if they get more than .035 I replace it.
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 18:35:40 GMT -5
I have new vent lines in each. I actually ordered replacement breach plugs and then switched back to make sure it wasn't bad replacement parts.
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 18:39:37 GMT -5
I'm going to try the new sabots that have been recommend but after that I guess I need to go to a different powder or bullet or both. Suggestions on that?
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Post by flatone on Oct 6, 2019 19:13:38 GMT -5
I’ll look... but I think I was shooting 65g of RL7 with Parker Match Hunter 300g and some MMP sabots using the sub base. Where do you live??
Are you 100% sure that your issue is not in the optics or mounts?? I would def rule this out before I spent anymore time and money chasing loads. I would probably tear the gun down and remount/retorque everything to spec. Clean the BP and install a new ventliner. Clean the barrel and check for any irregularities.
Order some 275 or 300g fury’s, a mix of MMP and Harvester sabots... and some RL7 and patiently dial it in.
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 6, 2019 19:19:25 GMT -5
I live in Delaware. Yes this "new" to me savage has brand new weaver bases, precision match vortex bases, and a brand new vortex scope. My "old" savage had the same set up. Both guns broken down, throughly cleaned, and dried before I put them both back together with new vent liners in each. I have not had the old gun bore sighted because I was naive and assumed the new setup would be lights out for me so I do not know what it is doing now.
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Post by mrbuck on Oct 6, 2019 19:19:31 GMT -5
Four inch groups can be greatly improved . 1.5" groups can be obtained but require finding the correct bullet , sabot , powder combination . All of the information given on here will be sound but it will still take time .
Chris
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Post by ET on Oct 6, 2019 19:23:58 GMT -5
I'm going to try the new sabots that have been recommend but after that I guess I need to go to a different powder or bullet or both. Suggestions on that? Focus on sabot/bullet fit because you mentioned bullet tumbling. The sabot has to have enough grip on the bullet to impart the proper spin. Also bullet knurling may help here. As for the original ramrods I got rid of mine and replaced it with a 3/8" aluminum ramrod. It handles tighter loads better as my loads are 20lbs/plus. Something you might want to consider. |
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Post by cuda on Oct 7, 2019 2:28:35 GMT -5
Have you used a drill bit to cleanout the BP?
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Post by quillen52 on Oct 7, 2019 6:42:54 GMT -5
Are you sure your scope is in good shape? Maybe it is not holding zero.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 7, 2019 9:06:45 GMT -5
I'm going to try the new sabots that have been recommend but after that I guess I need to go to a different powder or bullet or both. Suggestions on that? The load i always recommend for a problematic MLII. 63gr of Reloder7 300gr-325gr bullet....preferably a .458 And whatever sabot fits yours better. Either the MMP Orange or Harvester Black Crushrib if going with .458s...Harvester now sells a 50x458 sabot also but ive seen no reviews with them and smokeless. That load is very easy on sabots and dead nuts reliable at any temp. Speed aint great (2200fps ish) but its far better than 5744. Easy cheap powder to find also. Wont cost a fortune like N120. |
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Post by sika2019 on Oct 7, 2019 13:23:54 GMT -5
Update. Found the red crush rib havesters locally and switched to 250 gr hollow point hornady bullets and this gun is everything it's supposed to be, finally!!! Can't thank y'all enough for your input.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 8, 2019 10:16:21 GMT -5
Them Red Crushribs are really tough sabots too. Good choice for N110 loads.
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