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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 18:45:16 GMT -5
I see where some prefer a light bullet with more speed and some use heavierbullets with lower speeds.Is there a preference among shooters or a personal thing.Which works better on animals,speed or weight?
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Post by joelmoney on Feb 11, 2019 18:47:03 GMT -5
I shoot heavier for longer range due to higher BC.
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Post by Dunthat on Feb 11, 2019 19:49:48 GMT -5
Personally I have limited myself to 350yd shots...Preferably 300yds or less. My method of hunting is primarily spot and stalk using bi-pods,fence post or such as a rest. Under these circumstances I've killed killed quite a few using different bullets ranging from 195gn saboted to 300gn sabotless...Any of these bullets were equally effective when the shot was made right...I've settled with 275gn bullets at moderate speeds with my scope zeroed at 200yds....When you're using these elephant guns to kill a deer any will work..I guess if you're shooting from a blind with a solid rest a heavier higher BC bullet would be best at longer ranges...400yds plus... Zen
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Post by dannoboone on Feb 12, 2019 12:43:06 GMT -5
Which works better on animals,speed or weight? With proper shot placement and bullet design for the speed at which the bullet connects, either. I've shot three deer with 195BX-type bullets which were 150gr (special run). One was with a load of over 3000fps and two with loads of 2450fps. All were 60yds or less. All were hit with good shot placement with one making it 50yds and two DRT. In the case of the two, one could say that neither weight or speed was there, however, bullet performance was certainly there. My last two deer were taken under 50yds with 245gr Barnes Spitfires with loads just over 2700fps, one DRT and the other making it about 40yds. I wouldn't be a bit hesitant about shooting a large black bear with that load, providing it was under 100yds. I totally believe the ONLY advantage of 300+gr bullets is long range. Bullets at half that weight can be just as lethal, just at closer ranges.
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Post by joelmoney on Feb 12, 2019 13:06:28 GMT -5
You might want to take bullet construction into account more so than weight.
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Post by jimmykip on Feb 12, 2019 18:13:37 GMT -5
I like the lighter, speeder one's. But a large percentage of us crazys use the middle of the road path and go with 275s for hunting applications. Hardly matters in the lethality department when it comes to deer. They always die pretty quick.
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Post by Earnhardt on Feb 12, 2019 23:20:19 GMT -5
Both... Close range hunting areas...lighter bullet w/lower BC Longer range hunting areas...heavier bullet w/higher BC
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 13, 2019 12:44:59 GMT -5
I would still rather shoot something like a 40-250gr Fury@2300-2400fps vs a 200gr SST@2600+fps even for close range work. Both cost close to the same but the higher sectional density is nice.
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Post by nick50471 on Feb 22, 2019 17:30:10 GMT -5
Um...Why not heavy bullets at high velocity?
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Post by jims on Feb 22, 2019 17:39:52 GMT -5
The lighter bullets might cause less recoil. For my daughters that certainly is a factor.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2019 17:53:54 GMT -5
That is one of my concerns as well.At 68 yrs,240-250 grain bullets is about the high end for me.
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Post by joelmoney on Feb 22, 2019 18:22:59 GMT -5
That is one of my concerns as well.At 68 yrs,240-250 grain bullets is about the high end for me. 225 Aeromax sounds like a great fit for you. Low recoil dead on hold to 250+.
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Post by reloader22 on Feb 22, 2019 20:22:21 GMT -5
Been going heavy at low speed for a while now. Field conditions for where I hunt limit any possible shot, taken steady, at 200 yds or so. Light powder charges with heavy bullets are devastating on deer. Think .454 casull ballistics. To each his own for where and how they hunt.
Current load in my Savage is a 370 gr LBT hard cast solid at 1500 fps. I think it would go thru both shoulders of a steer and make deer look like they were made out of newspaper. Low recoil too
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Post by elktaker on Mar 6, 2019 10:33:05 GMT -5
344 bombs at BH209 velocities
Fights wind better with high BC and retains for energy long range. At plus 300 yards it starts to shine.
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Post by edge on Mar 6, 2019 12:41:13 GMT -5
I prefer the lightest bullet ( within reason ) that will get the job done. Less powder, lower recoil are all good in my book With that said, reasonable accuracy trumps everything else, and the longer the anticipated range the greater the accuracy needs to be. edge.
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Post by jaycee on Mar 7, 2019 12:20:40 GMT -5
Um...Why not heavy bullets at high velocity? If you can stand the recoil, go for it but you may develope a flinch that is then hard to overcome.
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Post by dans on Mar 8, 2019 12:11:56 GMT -5
Edge.+1.
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Post by 10ga on Mar 9, 2019 9:40:59 GMT -5
Lets see, heavy and soft bullets at lower speed is the smoker formula. Lighter and faster is the CF formula. With SML you can go whichever you want. Personally I feel accuracy is the king. I shoot mostly modest loads under = 250/300 grain bullets in my 50 SMLs and pretty much stick to HSB and 200/225 grain bullets in my 45 SMLs. Range is 300 and less pretty much 99% of the time. Before I got my 1st MLII in 07 it was 50 or 58 traditional caplock shooting PRB in slow twist barrels and that combo killed truckloads of deer and stuff. Again accuracy is king! 10ga
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Post by AJ on Mar 11, 2019 21:21:12 GMT -5
Um...Why not heavy bullets at high velocity? I like the way you think.
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Post by elktaker on Mar 15, 2019 23:28:15 GMT -5
Um...Why not heavy bullets at high velocity? I like the way you think. That’s why they invented muzzle brakes and hearing protection so you can have both.
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Post by smokepolehall on Mar 21, 2019 8:24:19 GMT -5
I don't shoot over 200 yds, its the rifle i have that has the limits. I only have deer here to hunt, so the Pistol/ML bullets. Work very well at the vel. they were made for. My bullet weights are from 195 gr up to 250 gr at this time
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Post by epanzella on Mar 23, 2019 11:41:34 GMT -5
In General, Lighter bullets at higher velocity 1. Tougher on the venison 2. More expansion / less penetration 3. Easier on your shoulder (less barrel time) 4. Flatter up close but worse past 250 yds as the poor BC catches up to them. 5. Hold slightly less critical due to less barrel time and less movement of gun while bullet is still in the barrel Heavier bullets at lower velocity 1. Easier on the venison 2. Less expansion / more penetration 3. Slightly more recoil 4. Flatter at longe range due to better BC. 5. Hold slightly more critical due to more barrel time and more gun movement while bullet still in the barrel. When comparing two loads close in weight these differences are very subtle but the effects grow as the difference between bullet weights become greater assuming the lighter bullet goes faster to keep the M/E about the same. My $.02
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Post by sw on Mar 23, 2019 14:19:43 GMT -5
I prefer the lightest bullet ( within reason ) that will get the job done. Less powder, lower recoil are all good in my book With that said, reasonable accuracy trumps everything else, and the longer the anticipated range the greater the accuracy needs to be. edge. Muzzleloader calibers are largely a result of black powder velocities and centuries old technology. A 1700’/sec 50cal round ball which looses half its energy by ~100 yards, a 1900’/sec 45 cal round ball with inadequate energy at 100 yards, etc.. originally those of us who got into smokeless MLing got into it for the accuracy, ease of care and slightly longer range and primarily for hunting. However, the 10 ML/ML2 came in the monsterous 50 cal and we shot primarily the bullets smoky inlines were shooting (conical bricks like 250XTPs). Then came saboted better BC’d bullets - 250/300SST, Precision Bullets, etc.. Then came 45s, and 40 cal saboted bullets wiith BCs of .18-.265. They were followed by bore sized 325-350+g bullets with serious BC , phenomenal accuracy and phenomenal recoil. And greatly increased range beyond 300 yards and killing power for anything that walks the Earth; yet, most people , self included, hunt to a max of 200 yards, maybe the desire to reach out to 300 yards, if need be. I’ve been shooting 200SSTs/195Bs at 2300-3000 out of my 45s and 40. The 195 is like shooting a brick but good to 200 yards. I’ve had too many non-passthrus with the 200SSTs. I need to keep lower velocities. So, where am I now? 225AccuMax. 402 that I size to 4005, shoot with 36g VV110 in HandiRifle 2250’/sec, extremely accurate, flatter shooting than the 200SSTS with same load (o.32 vs 0.265). Still using the 10/50 load but VV110/H4198 which still gets 2580-2600’/sec but very flat shooting in the 45 compared to the 200SST, in another 26” barreled 45 gets 2500’/sec with 37g VV110 and 2700’/sec in the 40cal. We're after adequate energy,accuracy and flatness of trajectory. The 40 cal bullets can do this without destroying scope, shoulders, etc. The recoil of the straight VV110 loads is low, accuracy is extreme, and the flatness of trajectory and wind deflection is much better than the 200SST even with the 10/50 load. Just some thoughts. This is where I am.
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Post by epanzella on Mar 23, 2019 15:10:16 GMT -5
My sons both shoot Savage 50's and are busting my stones because I built a 45 last year and I'm just putting the finishing touches on another 45.They're always quoting muzzle energy and knock down and blah blah blah. I can can launch a 200 gr 40 cal pill with a flatter trajectory / less recoil than their guns and it will kill deer dead out to 200 yds plus. A deer can only get so dead before it can't get any deader! Why beat myself up?
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Post by sw on Mar 23, 2019 22:25:22 GMT -5
They apparently haven’t matured as much as their father.
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Post by epanzella on Mar 24, 2019 9:08:24 GMT -5
They apparently haven’t matured as much as their father. Ha! If I mature any more I'll be dead. My sons are two gorillas in their mid 40's who can take a lot of recoil. Growing up I tried to teach them to always do what they thought was right and to have confidence in their decisions despite what others said. I may have overdone it!
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Post by edge on Mar 24, 2019 10:38:06 GMT -5
In General, Lighter bullets at higher velocity 1. Tougher on the venison 2. More expansion / less penetration 3. Easier on your shoulder (less barrel time) 4. Flatter up close but worse past 250 yds as the poor BC catches up to them. 5. Hold slightly less critical due to less barrel time and less movement of gun while bullet is still in the barrel Heavier bullets at lower velocity 1. Easier on the venison 2. Less expansion / more penetration 3. Slightly more recoil 4. Flatter at longe range due to better BC. 5. Hold slightly more critical due to more barrel time and more gun movement while bullet still in the barrel. When comparing two loads close in weight these differences are very subtle but the effects grow as the difference between bullet weights become greater assuming the lighter bullet goes faster to keep the M/E about the same. My $.02 IMO, those are based on "general" information, which is not what I would consider in my own decisions. Now, if I have a "Crystal Ball" and know the distance and direction I will take my deer, then I can narrow down the parameters. What do I know when I leave to hunt: I know the maximum and minimum range that I will encounter deer. Knowing that, I can make a reasonable decision on bullet choice, and impact velocity. I have shot deer from 1 yard to over 300 yards with my ML with 150 grain bullets up to 300 grain bullets. Penetration I have found to be a non issue,most any buelt exits broadside, even XTP pistol bullets! Damage can be controlled by choosing the correct bullet construction. When I hunt with my H&R .45, I am not hunting open fields with 300+ yard shots, I am in the woods expecting to bust a deer and 200 yards would rarely be an option. If I take my Shilen 45 with a 150 or 200 grain bullet at 3,000+ fps and weighing 14 lbs, I am sitting with a good rest and expectating 200-400 yard shots. The 150 grain Accubond while only carrying a .400+ BC is, IMO, the best constructed bullet for short and medium range deer. Long range generally requires a more fragile bullet. IMO, IMO, IMO edge.
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Post by epanzella on Mar 24, 2019 16:56:03 GMT -5
In General, Lighter bullets at higher velocity 1. Tougher on the venison 2. More expansion / less penetration 3. Easier on your shoulder (less barrel time) 4. Flatter up close but worse past 250 yds as the poor BC catches up to them. 5. Hold slightly less critical due to less barrel time and less movement of gun while bullet is still in the barrel Heavier bullets at lower velocity 1. Easier on the venison 2. Less expansion / more penetration 3. Slightly more recoil 4. Flatter at longe range due to better BC. 5. Hold slightly more critical due to more barrel time and more gun movement while bullet still in the barrel. When comparing two loads close in weight these differences are very subtle but the effects grow as the difference between bullet weights become greater assuming the lighter bullet goes faster to keep the M/E about the same. My $.02 IMO, those are based on "general" information, which is not what I would consider in my own decisions. Now, if I have a "Crystal Ball" and know the distance and direction I will take my deer, then I can narrow down the parameters. What do I know when I leave to hunt: I know the maximum and minimum range that I will encounter deer. Knowing that, I can make a reasonable decision on bullet choice, and impact velocity. I have shot deer from 1 yard to over 300 yards with my ML with 150 grain bullets up to 300 grain bullets. Penetration I have found to be a non issue,most any buelt exits broadside, even XTP pistol bullets! Damage can be controlled by choosing the correct bullet construction. When I hunt with my H&R .45, I am not hunting open fields with 300+ yard shots, I am in the woods expecting to bust a deer and 200 yards would rarely be an option. If I take my Shilen 45 with a 150 or 200 grain bullet at 3,000+ fps and weighing 14 lbs, I am sitting with a good rest and expectating 200-400 yard shots. The 150 grain Accubond while only carrying a .400+ BC is, IMO, the best constructed bullet for short and medium range deer. Long range generally requires a more fragile bullet. IMO, IMO, IMO edge. The Op was asking about heavy vs light bullets. I was just trying to give him some general guidelines to help him make his own decision. How do you like your H&R 45? I'm just finishing the stock on my H & R. I did all the metalwork while recovering from a knee replacement over the last 6 weeks. It was a 12 ga to .458 stub job. Should be ready for load development in a week or two. Can't wait! I also have a McSavage that shoots great but weighs a ton. I'm building this one for stalking.
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Post by sw on Mar 25, 2019 10:43:14 GMT -5
I hunt only white tails with my muzzleloaders. For smaller diameter bullets 1000’#s is considered adequate, for larger diameter, heavier bullets - 500’#s. Energy above that is needless excess in my opinion. Of course, many of us want good trajectory and that comes from higher BCs and speed. With only needing maybe 750’#s (inbetween larger diameter , 45-50 cal and smaller calibers 22-30) and considering the minimum MLer allowable caliber/bullet size , if allowable, 40 cal bullets out of 40 cal sabotless or 45 saboted seems most practical to me. Now for those of us interested in a max of 300 yards, we now have the ability to use 40 cal bullets with a BC of over 0.3 (.34) without a lot of weight, 225g , on up to a BC on up to 0.475 with 300gs. That’s just AccuMaxs. There are others I’ve seen up to 0.525 BC. I see absolutely no reason to stay with the huge caliber of 45 for long range hunting, except for legal considerations. A 225g bullet with a BC of 0.34 vs a bullet of 0.19 or 0.265 (listed BCs of 195B/ 200SST) at 2,500-2,800’/sec has such an advantage and can reach way out there w/o scope/shoulder punishing recoil. This just make sense to me.
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Post by jims on Mar 25, 2019 13:45:11 GMT -5
SW I think your logic is sound. Generally follow a similar approach for the yardages I shoot. My daughters like the lower recoil of the lighter bullets and not huge quantity of powder that some shoot but to each his own.
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