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Post by jp81 on Nov 4, 2018 8:15:49 GMT -5
My son shoots a 700ml with hunter bolt nose and breech plug and 50gr (by weight) bh209. Never had a problem until this morning. Yesterday evening he shot it and it fired just fine. I reloaded without cleaning it and left it in the truck. This morning we have a nice buck at about 60yds working a scrape and the primer poped but no fire. Somehow the buck didn’t spook and I managed to get a new primer on it, same result. I stuck the ramrod down Barrel and the load had been pushed out 4 or 5 inches, I pushed it down and reprimerd again no go. Ended up busting every primer I had (6 I think). Like a moron I didn’t bring my gun with me. We were using Remington sts primers because I ran out of Winchester but the Remington performed fine when we were target shooting. I have heard bad stories about bh 209 not firing but I had never had a problem with it. This may be enough to make me go back to pyrodex unless you guys see a serious mistake I made. What do you think?
Thanks
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Post by AJ on Nov 4, 2018 8:43:28 GMT -5
I have never had an issue with ignition when using Federal or CCI 209M primers. I would not blame the powder.
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Post by jp81 on Nov 4, 2018 8:54:00 GMT -5
Update
I got back to the house and found some fed 209a primer. Popped 2 of those still no fire. I disassembled and everything looked fine to me.
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busta
8 Pointer
Posts: 105
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Post by busta on Nov 4, 2018 10:38:27 GMT -5
Breech Plug could have been plugged? Either that, or your saboted bullet is to loose for the colder weather? If your bullet moved 4"-5" off the charge, it had to be either the weak primers, or too loose of a sabot on the first shot. After that it might have snowballed on you. If the saboted bullet doesn't have enough resistance, the powder won't ignite in colder weather, especially with too weak of a primer. Once the bullet moves forward off the charge, there won't be enough heat and pressure from the primer. After that, either your flash hole was plugged, or your bullet had migrated off the charge. You need to develop a load during the cold weather months that is proven to ignite for your particular rifle. Those Easy-Load /Easy-Glide type saboted bullets are one example that don't work as well in the colder weather. Not having a nipple pick to check your flash hole is clear to the powder is another. Not having either Federal 209A or CCI 209-M primers on the hunt is another. Get a tight fitting sabot, a nipple pick/ small diameter wire/ guitar string, and some Magnum primers. Load the rifle, and leave it along with your quick loads sit in the cold for several hours.Then go see what happens in the first shot. Have you been cleaning the primer carbon out of the breech plug? What saboted bullet are you using? I have a saying when it comes to Blackhorn 209. What you might get away with during the warm months of summer, might come back to bite you during the colder months of hunting season. T/C markets an inline nipple pick that you can wear on a lanyard at the ready, to make sure your flame has a clear path to the powder. www.amazon.com/Thompson-Center-In-Line-Nipple-Pick/dp/B00162QDCA |
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Post by billyboy on Nov 4, 2018 13:47:46 GMT -5
I agree with the posts above. BH 209 needs a tight seal & Fed 209A or CCI 209M primers. I also had custom Breech plugs fabbed with a 5/32” primer flame channel & primer shelf for .003” Crush fit so I could use Bore size bullets with confidence.
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Post by jp81 on Nov 4, 2018 16:11:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies fellas. Your probably right about the loose sabot and cold weather although it was only down to 28 this morning. It is black crush rib sabots and 250gr .451 Barnes xpb, a .458 bullet would probably be better. I had no idea this powder was so temp and pressure sensitive or I wouldn’t have started using it. In almost 25 years of hunting pyrodex and 777 has never let me down in any weather. I will experiment some with it this winter but will probably never trust it again for hunting and I doubt my son will either.
Thanks
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Post by jp81 on Nov 4, 2018 16:13:43 GMT -5
Forgot to mention I do always clean the carbon out of plug every time I clean the gun.
Thanks
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Post by AJ on Nov 4, 2018 16:32:10 GMT -5
Once you do a little homework you will find it is head and shoulders above T7 or Pyrocrap. I trust BH209 enough to use it on once in a lifetime hunts that are only a few days long.
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oked
8 Pointer
Posts: 206
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Post by oked on Nov 6, 2018 2:52:03 GMT -5
just a question, arent black crush rib sabots designed for .458 dia. bullets?
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busta
8 Pointer
Posts: 105
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Post by busta on Nov 6, 2018 5:33:55 GMT -5
just a question, arent black crush rib sabots designed for .458 dia. bullets? No, .451" & .452" bullets. If your bore is on the larger end such as .504", sometimes they work well with .458" bullets. |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 6, 2018 9:20:00 GMT -5
Harvester just released a new sabot for 458s though. Its not on their website yet but you can call to order some. twitter.com/harvesterml |
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Post by billyboy on Nov 6, 2018 14:20:16 GMT -5
Harvester just released a new sabot for 458s though. Its not on their website yet but you can call to order some. twitter.com/harvestermlYes, I emailed them last week & they sent out a sample pack. You can't beat that for customer service! |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 6, 2018 16:14:27 GMT -5
Please measure loaded OD when you get some. The test samples sent to TB i heard were too small OD and it should have been corrected by the time they were released.
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Post by billyboy on Nov 7, 2018 18:48:33 GMT -5
Please measure loaded OD when you get some. The test samples sent to TB i heard were too small OD and it should have been corrected by the time they were released. They arrived today part # H150458 OR. The loaded OD appears to be .506” |
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Post by luv2shoot on Nov 27, 2018 16:13:00 GMT -5
I had it happen to me before in a LHR. Primer pushed the bullet out of the barrel. good news is I got to shoot the same bowl it three times. :-)
I used a veggie wad and it worked great Went off every time. Knowing the bullet was undersized. Range experiment.
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Post by mtdjager on Dec 18, 2018 23:05:51 GMT -5
I just cracked open my 7th 12oz jug of BH209 while at my private range double checking the zero's of my sons and mine inlines for our upcoming ML hunts. I use loads of between 77 and 84 grains of weighed BH209 in my inlines. I'm guessing based on that I have fired about 460 loads of BH209 in temps from the teens to the mid to high 70s and never had a single problem. I used Winchester, or CCI 209 primers.
I first used up all of the premeasured loads from the last two ML seasons stored in plastic screw cap vials, I bought several dozen from a member here years ago, before using the new powder. All 15-20 of the left over charges went off and shot well without issue. Two years ago while ML hunting circumstances resulted in my Encore and my Knight Elite both remaining loaded with BH209 for the last two weeks of the ML season here in Indiana and both when shot hit to point of aim without issue.
I do knurl my bullets to ensure the tightest bullet/sabot/barrel fit I can achieve, but I do this for reasons to maximize accuracy, not until reading this did it occur it might also aid ignition. But I also have like many here have fired literally 1000's of ML rounds under my belt, with both BP/Subs and smokeless and I can honestly say without doubt I have never once experienced a mis-fire or problem of any sort with ignition once I pulled the trigger.
Seen some very interesting examples of hang-fires like the time my friends Encore fired only to spit all 3 pellets of Pyrodex out onto the end of the shooting bench where we all watched them slowly fizzle and burn up, not unlike the "burning snake" fireworks we lit off as kids on the 4th.
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