Safety above and beyond.

[dans]

I feel that my Savage guns are safe. If I thought that they were pipe bombs waiting to happen, I wouldn't own them or shoot them. The original inventor and later the Savage engineers have a safe design that works safely with the loads the gun was designed for. We talk a lot about book loads. The loads recommended by the manufacturer which perform well and do not exceed the safety factor of the gun. If we were content to use these loads I believe that these rifles would out last us. Now many on this board are always trying to find a better load and I have no problem with that. I read everything I could find on the then new smokeless savage muzzleloader when it first came out. Savage pressure tested this design up to 120,000 psi. and the rifle was intact. They tried to blow it up by loading a double charge of powder behind a 300 grain bullet, they loaded one load on top of another, double powder, double bullet and could not destroy the rifle. Due to human error, we have shot ramrods, double loaded, and who knows what else to these rifles and managed to bulge some barrels but as far as I know no one has blown one up. We have in the interest of better performance, done and used all sorts of modifications, powders, wads, washers, etc. and still no known blown up rifles on this board. I hear words to describe the Savage like "overbuilt","strongest production rifle ever", etc. I believe them.

[sw]

Just a historical note. Toby B came up with the previous and current book loads. I believe the Balls also had some of their own loads, especially the 5744 loads. They work extremely well. Criteria included: 1.5 MOA max @ 100 yds, work with both 250/300XTPs, relatively temp insensitive, consistent ignition, not over 50gs of powder in the load. The slower powder loads pioneered by RB, Ron Name, others(?), offer faster loads with equal or less pressure(the original criteria for book loads was not over 50gs). The duplex loads that are commonly used also have pressure that does not exceed book load pressures but have quicker obturation and higher velocities. I think the Sav is very safe.

[muskyhunter1]

Jul 30, 2009 8:30:08 GMT -5 dans said:

I feel that my Savage guns are safe. If I thought that they were pipe bombs waiting to happen, I wouldn't own them or shoot them. The original inventor and later the Savage engineers have a safe design that works safely with the loads the gun was designed for. We talk a lot about book loads. The loads recommended by the manufacturer which perform well and do not exceed the safety factor of the gun. If we were content to use these loads I believe that these rifles would out last us. Now many on this board are always trying to find a better load and I have no problem with that. I read everything I could find on the then new smokeless savage muzzleloader when it first came out. Savage pressure tested this design up to 120,000 psi. and the rifle was intact. They tried to blow it up by loading a double charge of powder behind a 300 grain bullet, they loaded one load on top of another, double powder, double bullet and could not destroy the rifle. Due to human error, we have shot ramrods, double loaded, and who knows what else to these rifles and managed to bulge some barrels but as far as I know no one has blown one up. We have in the interest of better performance, done and used all sorts of modifications, powders, wads, washers, etc. and still no known blown up rifles on this board. I hear words to describe the Savage like "overbuilt","strongest production rifle ever", etc. I believe them.

Dans - Could you put me onto these articles re testing of the 10ML. I really think mine is amazing gun but I am to the point I was switching to Buckhorn 209 (cleaner powder) for safety reasons.

Just want to convince myself.

Thanks,

Dave

[whyohe]

muskyhunter, if you use book loads you are very safe. in the tips and hint section you can look at the pressure trace loads that have been tested here. and you can look at the actual graph.

dougva.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thread=3372

[GMB54-120]

muskyhunter1

I dont know if you have ever seen heavy sub load pressures. Some can get pretty high compared to slower burning smokeless options like Re7.

While slow burners may not be the best with 250gr or less bullets, many work great with 300-325gr bullets and pressures are pretty low. Many are under 30k psi or just slightly more.

Ive only compared sabots for signs of stress but max loads of BH209 behind a 325gr FTX look no better or worse than 65gr of Re7 with the same bullet and sabot. Primers look no more stressed either.

My goal was to beat max BH209 load ballistics with 250gr and 300gr bullets and IMO ive have achieved that goal with 5744 and Re7 at a lower cost per shot. Both are easy to ignite but use 5744 with caution when shooting 300gr bullets.

Im not saying those are the best powders but they did exactly what i wanted and cost much less per shot compared to BH209.

[zakjak221]

There are many good articles/load data out there, I like this one:http://www.chuckhawks.com/interview_ball.htm