Follow up to Hermans post....
Jul 29, 2009 14:06:36 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Jul 29, 2009 14:06:36 GMT -5
I know I can get a little "long winded" with my posts and maybe some of what I display is of no interest to shooters who just want a simple deer load? A "click" of the mouse and I disappear ;D Hopefully I can provide some useful information on loads people would otherwise not try. I also try to explain such things as "flyers" and what may have caused them. Some I can not explain myself and look for good feed back.
Yesterday started out as a foggy morning (could not see the 200 yard targets) and turned into an overcast hot and humid NC day. Temps going into the lower 90's. The overcast was good for the chronograph and the lack of wind good for groups........at least until about noon when the wind picked up.
After seeing how good that one duplex shot for me last week, Herman put a few together for this week and did exceptionally well. I actually did not shoot that load again this week as I had some other stuff I wanted to try. A load that shoot real good was the 200 SST, Blue Harvester (BH) (no knurling) with a 15/55 Duplex (N-110/N-130). It shot right at 2900 fps. This week I wanted to try reducing the starter to 14 and increasing the main charge to 56 gr. and see what changed...if any!!
If you look at targets #1, #2 and #3, you will see that I used this load for all three groups. Five shots each at 100, 200 and 300 yards. I am using a 6.5 x 20 Leupold scope with Varmint Hunter reticle. ALL (3) groups were shot using the center crosshair and aiming directly at the "bullseye!". My intent was to see what the "real world" drop was on the load and how accurate it was. None of the shots were "called flyers" and I felt every shot was solid and well aimed at 20X.
At 100 yards, the first shot was from a clean out of the case barrel. Note the velocity was the highest of the five. Excluding that shot, the next four made a tidy little 1.1" group. Actually, of the four 100 yard groups, this was the largest Five Shot group. The remaining groups each had a consecutive three shot groups of .7" or less. This first group was centered and 3" + at 100 yds.
Group #2 Was more dispersed that I would have thought or liked but the first four shots did go into 2.868" which is more than acceptable for hunting accuracy. This string of shots also were the most consistent in velocity. Again, this is one of the things that gets me scratching my head. I thought the group should have been better
This group averaged 1.250" + at 200 yds.
Moving out to 300 yards, here is where differences in velocity come into play...BIG time! Shot #3 was some 200 fps slower than the other four?
? So, I know what caused #3 to go high (longer time in the barrel during recoil) I just don't know what caused the loss in velocity? The seating pressure did not indicate any difference and the charges are well measured. It is obvious that shots 1, 2, 4 and 5 at an average of about 2875 fps grouped well at 2.9", so what happened with #3 to spoil my group?
Not counting #3, this group averaged 9" low. In reality, I could shoot this load from Zero to 300 yards with only a single set of crosshairs. Out to 200 to 250 yards, hold dead on.....At 300 put the crosshair on the top of the shoulder and be good to go! Nice!
I shot one more group at 300 yards using the 300 gr. SST, Knurled up from a "sized" .448" to .452" along with a .060" veggie wad and 61 gr. of H-4198 for an average velocity of 2300 fps.. My very first shot at 300 was off the paper? So, I fired a second shot at 100 yards and found the bullet hit 3" at 3:00. (dead on elevation) (which explained the bullet off the paper at 300). I proceeded to use my third "hash" mark down for my elevation while NOT allowing for the windage. As you can see the group went low and to the right but three shots in 3.8" and 5 in 5" I think is doable for hunting.
And, the last three groups are pretty much self explanatory. Though, if you look at #6 and the velocities, you will note shots 1 and 2 are only 6 fps apart at 2435 fps and clustered together while shots 3 and four are much higher and clustered together lower down but the kicker is shot #5 which went back to to the velocity of 1 & 2 and still grouped with the higher velocity shots??? This is what gets me pulling my hair out (and I'm pretty Bald as it is
) Groups 5 and 7 also have similar situations.
All in all, what I have found is that this .45 Pac-Nor at these upper range velocities shoot very good at 100 yards even with some pretty big differences in velocity. However, as the yardage stretches out, you will see groups opening up significantly. So, rather than waste a lot of shots at 300 yards, I am inclined to do more testing and playing at 100 yards to get low Extreme Spreads. This way I have eliminated a major stumbling block from the long range accuracy puzzle.
Yesterday started out as a foggy morning (could not see the 200 yard targets) and turned into an overcast hot and humid NC day. Temps going into the lower 90's. The overcast was good for the chronograph and the lack of wind good for groups........at least until about noon when the wind picked up.
After seeing how good that one duplex shot for me last week, Herman put a few together for this week and did exceptionally well. I actually did not shoot that load again this week as I had some other stuff I wanted to try. A load that shoot real good was the 200 SST, Blue Harvester (BH) (no knurling) with a 15/55 Duplex (N-110/N-130). It shot right at 2900 fps. This week I wanted to try reducing the starter to 14 and increasing the main charge to 56 gr. and see what changed...if any!!
If you look at targets #1, #2 and #3, you will see that I used this load for all three groups. Five shots each at 100, 200 and 300 yards. I am using a 6.5 x 20 Leupold scope with Varmint Hunter reticle. ALL (3) groups were shot using the center crosshair and aiming directly at the "bullseye!". My intent was to see what the "real world" drop was on the load and how accurate it was. None of the shots were "called flyers" and I felt every shot was solid and well aimed at 20X.
At 100 yards, the first shot was from a clean out of the case barrel. Note the velocity was the highest of the five. Excluding that shot, the next four made a tidy little 1.1" group. Actually, of the four 100 yard groups, this was the largest Five Shot group. The remaining groups each had a consecutive three shot groups of .7" or less. This first group was centered and 3" + at 100 yds.
Group #2 Was more dispersed that I would have thought or liked but the first four shots did go into 2.868" which is more than acceptable for hunting accuracy. This string of shots also were the most consistent in velocity. Again, this is one of the things that gets me scratching my head. I thought the group should have been better
This group averaged 1.250" + at 200 yds.Moving out to 300 yards, here is where differences in velocity come into play...BIG time! Shot #3 was some 200 fps slower than the other four?
? So, I know what caused #3 to go high (longer time in the barrel during recoil) I just don't know what caused the loss in velocity? The seating pressure did not indicate any difference and the charges are well measured. It is obvious that shots 1, 2, 4 and 5 at an average of about 2875 fps grouped well at 2.9", so what happened with #3 to spoil my group?Not counting #3, this group averaged 9" low. In reality, I could shoot this load from Zero to 300 yards with only a single set of crosshairs. Out to 200 to 250 yards, hold dead on.....At 300 put the crosshair on the top of the shoulder and be good to go! Nice!
I shot one more group at 300 yards using the 300 gr. SST, Knurled up from a "sized" .448" to .452" along with a .060" veggie wad and 61 gr. of H-4198 for an average velocity of 2300 fps.. My very first shot at 300 was off the paper? So, I fired a second shot at 100 yards and found the bullet hit 3" at 3:00. (dead on elevation) (which explained the bullet off the paper at 300). I proceeded to use my third "hash" mark down for my elevation while NOT allowing for the windage. As you can see the group went low and to the right but three shots in 3.8" and 5 in 5" I think is doable for hunting.
And, the last three groups are pretty much self explanatory. Though, if you look at #6 and the velocities, you will note shots 1 and 2 are only 6 fps apart at 2435 fps and clustered together while shots 3 and four are much higher and clustered together lower down but the kicker is shot #5 which went back to to the velocity of 1 & 2 and still grouped with the higher velocity shots??? This is what gets me pulling my hair out (and I'm pretty Bald as it is
) Groups 5 and 7 also have similar situations.All in all, what I have found is that this .45 Pac-Nor at these upper range velocities shoot very good at 100 yards even with some pretty big differences in velocity. However, as the yardage stretches out, you will see groups opening up significantly. So, rather than waste a lot of shots at 300 yards, I am inclined to do more testing and playing at 100 yards to get low Extreme Spreads. This way I have eliminated a major stumbling block from the long range accuracy puzzle.
You have to admit, I provoked some lively discussion! No? 
after you shoot. I started with the .030" wads but noted Edge uses .060" and figured they could not hurt? Don't know if I can tell the difference. I figure they might give a little more resistance and hence a tad more pressure.
