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Post by jp81 on Mar 5, 2017 0:20:34 GMT -5
I want to build a sml and need some advice on where to start. I have a handi rifle I was planning on getting a 45-70 barrel to build but from what I've read the load choices would be limited. Now I'm thinking maybe put a little more money into a bolt action build. I want this gun to last my lifetime and pass it on to my sons. Now the options are rem 700ml, 700 cf, or savage cf. Which do you think is the best? What model savage is good for these builds? Would one be any easier than the others for a diy project? I would like to do the work myself if possible. For hunting I'll probably never shoot more than 200yds but it would be nice to know I could shoot father confidently if need be. For target shooting I think it would be fun to shoot a ml out to 500yds. So Remington? Savage? Or just stick with my original nef 45-70 idea? I just don't want to sink a lot of money into something I'm not going to be happy with.
Thanks
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Post by ourway77 on Mar 5, 2017 4:45:01 GMT -5
Remington 700 and Savage CF you would be able to use hotter loads If your shoulder can take it A brake helps. 700ML would be limited to lesser loads on my Rem 700ML/Brux I use 70 grains of 4198 300 grain bullet still much better than a break action but with a higher price tag I like Brux barrels but others have great success with other makes of barrels But of course you are getting into a higher price range unless you have the ability to put one together on your own If not there is Bestill, Luke, and others who can set one up for you I have used both the afore mentioned and I give very high marks Cole he is another with high marks I have used but his shop burned down. If you only shoot 200 yards then a break action will do everything you want it too do Velocity doesn't make for good accuracy all the time Good Luck
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Post by jims on Mar 5, 2017 8:28:06 GMT -5
I find the Savages to be more user friendly if you are doing it yourself with the barrel nut but both CFs would work. The Rems for the most part it seems have a bit more beef in the barrel. For that reason I might lean more that way and more available triggers etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 9:11:58 GMT -5
I've built one on a 700ml and a savage 243. I'd build one on a 700 center fire because you can find upgrade parts for it that to me are easier to work with. To me the 700 is designed better but maybe I'm goofy.
My next build will be a 700 action if I ever build another rifle.
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Post by jp81 on Mar 5, 2017 9:19:33 GMT -5
So in your experience what would be the maximum effective range for consistently taking deer with each of these builds? Assuming of course I put in the time at the range to work up a proper load combination and familiarize myself with how the gun shoots. Approximately how much $ could I expect to have in each of these (700ml vs 700 or savage cf vs nef 45-70 barrel) assuming I already have the action or barrel to start with?
Thanks for all your help!
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Post by Dave W on Mar 5, 2017 11:50:57 GMT -5
The cost is going to come down to the accessories, it can add up quickly. I would do a centerfire build, the Savage seems more DIY friendly from what I have gathered. Don't know if it is true but one source said the 700 has more camming effect when the bolt is worked which may be beneficial to a 209 setup in getting a crush fit but the Savage cams also to a lesser extent, from what I have been told. What are you going to use for ignition?
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Post by jp81 on Mar 5, 2017 12:43:36 GMT -5
Thanks Dave
I've not settled on the ignition yet. Just trying to gather all the information I can before getting started. I'm still open to any and all suggestions
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Post by rambler on Mar 5, 2017 13:21:13 GMT -5
Thanks Dave I've not settled on the ignition yet. Just trying to gather all the information I can before getting started. I'm still open to any and all suggestions I used a Savage TA on my bolt gun, but it is on the pricey side compared to a break open or remy conversion. I think I paid around $550.00 for the action at Buds Gun Shop. The bolt nose is very easy to convert to a 209 system. If I can do it anyone can. Just an option.
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Post by bestill on Mar 5, 2017 15:12:41 GMT -5
Do you have a donor Rifle?
Also 750ml action will be great platform to build when available
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Post by jp81 on Mar 5, 2017 16:53:01 GMT -5
No I don't have an action yet. Still trying to decide what to start with
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Post by 10ga on Mar 5, 2017 19:52:01 GMT -5
I've had SMLs done on 700ML (3), Encore conversion and of course Savage ML2 rebarrel (2). To be considered is are you doing a 45 or 50, hunting regs out west pretty much limit you to 50 for big game but most places 45 OK. Hunting style could come into play. The easiest way is have a "conversion" done on a break action 45-70 and these guns can shoot better than most smokers. Personally I am now on the hunt for a TC Omega to have Bestill convert I have seen some he did and they are really nice guns.
To a beginner I recommend a break action conversion. If you are doing a build yourself a Savage or Stevens SA centerfire is really simple. If you are going to have a smith do all the work then most any SA in CF that they find acceptable will work.
Last it's the $.
Cheapest SML I did was a barrel switch on a blue ML2 that I got for $200 that had a bulged barrel that I took off and then was gifted a SS takeoff 50 and just put that on.
If you go over to Lukes site, I think it's still Arrowhead sporting goods, you can get an idea of part prices and smith charges.
It's pretty easy to go to 1000 before you do glass. Break action conversions, like your NEF, can be done for less and will easily shoot 200. It's up from there.
My 700ML builds were $200 to $350 for action, $400 to $600 for barrels, 209 ignition plugs $35 @ then retrofit for carbide vent $100 +-@, Then the smith work of install plug and remove old barrel, cut and crown and install new barrel and have all bead blasted = $200 up, then a stock $100 up, then a Cerakote or Black Ice or other finish of choice $150 up. Then figure what you've got in it and figure 50% of that for base, rings and glass.
For my Encore it was, well Encore frame already in hand. Purchase TC 45-70 barrel $300, ship barrel to smith for conversion $180 for plug and install and new crown incl shipping. Install barrel and scope = ready to hunt. This was 2009 and prices are kinda up from that now. Hope this helps, JMHO 10 ga
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Post by bowhunterjsc on Mar 5, 2017 20:08:05 GMT -5
Lifetime gun? I would go with a 700ML or 700CF and one of the heavy barrel options. These are less limited on loads. Basically, they can do everything all of the other options can do, and then some.
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Post by jp81 on Mar 5, 2017 21:34:03 GMT -5
Thanks guys for all the thoughts. I'm keeping a lookout for possible donor rifles. I might just go with whatever I find at a decent price first. Seems like each one has it's pros and cons but I'd probably be happy with the finished product no matter which way I go. I appreciate the advice I want to learn all I can before getting stared. When I do finally get something to start with I'll probably be picking your brain a lot more
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Post by Deerhunter76 on Mar 6, 2017 8:34:17 GMT -5
Here's what I learned after I went thru this a year ago. Take the time to research and ask as many questions as possible. Don't go super cheap just for the sake of having a gun. You will regret it. Really take into consideration what you NEED the gun for vs what you THINK you need the gun for. I built a Savage bolt gun for my 1st. It's amazing and accurate as I can shoot it. Problem is it's a little heavy, very loud with a brake, and not practical for 50% of the time I spend still hunting river bottoms. For these reasons I now have a CVA Apex for those hunts. Both guns serve a distinct purpose. I
Lastly don't kid yourself into thinking you will only have 1. I think most everyone on this board has at least 2 in the safe!
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Post by jp81 on Mar 6, 2017 16:51:10 GMT -5
Thanks. It wouldn't bother me to have more than one it's just making the wife understand why I needed that other one.
But then I don't need 50 pair of shoes either
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Post by 7mmfreak on Mar 6, 2017 17:03:51 GMT -5
700ML actions often cost more than they are worth. If you can find one in great shape under $300 shipped then go for it. They won't limit you on loads despite what some folks think.
CF conversions cost more than a 700ML conversion but allow you to turn it back into a metallic gun if you tire of this. They do cam a 209 better in both directions which is important. Nothing wrong with Savage per se except I don't like the way they look or feel. Besides, the Savage TA had been harder to come by than a 700 action although you aren't limited to the TA.
The Omega is a cool build. I'm really excited about mine.
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Post by rpcw on Mar 14, 2017 11:27:42 GMT -5
I have a 700ml conversion being built now but honestly my Savage ML with Luke's kit is hard to beat. We are going to try his Encore kit as well.
As far as effective range question, how far can you accurately shoot?
Personally I would go to 300 yards. Took two bucks last year, one at 82 yards off a shooting rail and one at 191 yards freehand. Both never took another step.
Also whacked a coyote at 194 yards off a shooting rail.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Mar 14, 2017 14:11:14 GMT -5
As far as effective range question, how far can you accurately shoot? I would say that is much more heavily dependent on the shooter than the gun because most of these guns can shoot as far as you can. As for real long range there are way better tools than an SML. At 600yds I have to be much better with my wind call than with something like a .308 Win or similar.
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Post by rpcw on Mar 14, 2017 14:37:56 GMT -5
You got it, that was exactly the point I was trying to make to the original poster.
These SML aren't usually going to be the limiting factor. I know mine will shoot accurate beyond 300 but that is all I practice to so that is my limit.
Your mileage may vary!
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Post by jp81 on Mar 14, 2017 16:01:26 GMT -5
I have a 700ml conversion being built now but honestly my Savage ML with Luke's kit is hard to beat. We are going to try his Encore kit as well. As far as effective range question, how far can you accurately shoot? Personally I would go to 300 yards. Took two bucks last year, one at 82 yards off a shooting rail and one at 191 yards freehand. Both never took another step. Also whacked a coyote at 194 yards off a shooting rail. I would be confident taking a 300yd shot on a deer with a good rest maybe a little farther if its calm. I practice out as far as 500 with my high powered rifles. Most of my shots at deer would be 150 or less but I sometimes hunt places where a 300yd or more shot would be possible. I've always waited until rifle season to hunt these places but would hunt them earlier with a better ml. Do you think the handi rifle 45-70 conversion would be capable of hitting consistently at 300? Thanks
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Post by 7mmfreak on Mar 14, 2017 16:48:18 GMT -5
I would opt for a CVA Scout over a Handi.
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Post by rpcw on Mar 14, 2017 16:48:26 GMT -5
Don't know as I haven't done a 45-70 conversion but I can tell you it wouldn't be my first choice simply because I am a Brux barrel fan. Others here can tell you the scoop on those conversions I'm sure. I can tell you that with the encore build we expect to reach out well to 300 yards at 2500 fps and I have found some thinner Jacketed bullets seem to prefer speeds around 2500-2600 fps in my Savage SML. Hopefully this holds true to the encore.
I also wanted to be rid of sabots and their inconsistency. Others on here make very small groups but out of the 7 stock savage 10 ml-11 I've owned, not one would I call a consistent 300 yard gun. Again only my own personal experience.
In my area its shotgun or ML for deer only so having this sabotless SML option is great. Before going this route I exhausted all different shotgun slug options and found I could do 200 ok but now half our gang uses only SML.
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Post by lungpuncher1 on Apr 6, 2017 6:07:48 GMT -5
I have a 700ml conversion being built now but honestly my Savage ML with Luke's kit is hard to beat. We are going to try his Encore kit as well. As far as effective range question, how far can you accurately shoot? Personally I would go to 300 yards. Took two bucks last year, one at 82 yards off a shooting rail and one at 191 yards freehand. Both never took another step. Also whacked a coyote at 194 yards off a shooting rail. I would be confident taking a 300yd shot on a deer with a good rest maybe a little farther if its calm. I practice out as far as 500 with my high powered rifles. Most of my shots at deer would be 150 or less but I sometimes hunt places where a 300yd or more shot would be possible. I've always waited until rifle season to hunt these places but would hunt them earlier with a better ml. Do you think the handi rifle 45-70 conversion would be capable of hitting consistently at 300? Thanks I have a 700ml for sale in the classifieds if your interested. Ill give you a good deal shipped to your door, just PM me. Its in great shape, I just have too many gun projects going on so im not going to get around to building it anytime soon and need the funds to finish other things up.
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Post by cuda on Apr 13, 2017 15:09:54 GMT -5
I used a Stevens 200 223 and did a 45 McGowen barrel swap and Savage BP and Savage 209 bolt head. I use 69gr of IMR4198 and lubed wad 290gr TEZ with a Win209. I shoot it sabot less and my son has killed 6 deer in 6 years with it. It was easy to put it together too.
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