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Post by 10ga on May 8, 2017 12:07:26 GMT -5
Weigh ALL your smokeless loads. Lee balance beam scale is inexpensive and accurate, that is what I use. Luke and Kyle have vials. Get a box, you'll need them. 10
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Post by jp81 on May 9, 2017 9:22:31 GMT -5
Ok I'll be looking for one. Thanks guys
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Post by jp81 on Jun 23, 2017 10:55:22 GMT -5
Ok guys I got my barrel back from Luke a couple days ago and finally got to shoot it today. I'm using H4198 and 200gr hornady sst with harvester smooth light blue sabots. I started out with 50gr shooting 50 yards. First 2 shots looked ok but the third keyholed. I then shot 3 shots loaded with 55gr and 2 out of 3 keyholed ( I'm talking perfectly sideways). Talk about disappointment! And that's not all , I'll probably need to find a yard stick to measure the groups(I know it would be better if the bullet was flying straight) but still very frustrating. Any ideas on what's wrong and how to fix it will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Post by lwh723 on Jun 23, 2017 11:05:28 GMT -5
Probably looser bore. You will need to knurl. Going up in powder charge will never fix a blown sabot problem... it only makes it worse. Also, you probably shot too fast and heated your barrel up. Honestly, it's about impossible not to overheat your barrel this time of year.
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 23, 2017 11:57:21 GMT -5
I'm using H4198 and 200gr hornady sst with harvester smooth light blue sabots. I started out with 50gr shooting 50 yards. First 2 shots looked ok but the third keyholed. I then shot 3 shots loaded with 55gr and 2 out of 3 keyholed ( I'm talking perfectly sideways). How much loading pressure is it taking to push the bullet down the barrel? If it's slipping down the barrel with one-handed loading pressure, Luke is correct, you will need to knurl. For accuracy, it really helps to have calipers to check diameter. Just .001" can make a lot of difference. It's almost mandatory in warmer/hotter months to have a cooling rod when shooting saboted bullets. There are instructions on how to make one, but I believe it's on the old board. Anyone have a link? Blown sabots deposit plastic in the bore. You probably need to do a thorough cleaning with a brass brush and penetrating oil.
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Post by 10ga on Jun 23, 2017 11:58:18 GMT -5
Clean barrel very well after a blown sabot. Sounds like you are shooting a "hot" barrel. with sabots shooting cold barrel is very important. Heat makes the sabots soft and will fail very easily. I knurl all my bullets shot in sabots. A light knurl for gripping the sabot or a heavy knurl to increase the bullet size.
It is late June, I don't know where you are but it is hot time to be testing sabot loads. Best to shoot early in the AM when cooler. Build yourself a cool rod which is an aluminum or copper rod that acts as a heat sink to cool your barrel. If you do not have a cool rod then a wait between shots is in order, If temps in 70s then 15 to 20 minute wait necessary to make sure barrel is cool, with cooler temps the wait can be shorter.
Your 1st 2 shots OK then a keyhole is a clue on sabot failure in a hot barrel.
My opinion, others may be different. Good and safe shooting. Mark that ramrod. 10
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Post by jp81 on Jun 23, 2017 12:23:53 GMT -5
The bullets are a pretty snug fix, it takes some effort to get them down. I will definitely try cleaning and shooting a cold barrel. It's not too hot here today, about 70 when I was shooting but the gun was in the sun and I did notice it getting warm. Thanks
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Post by jp81 on Jun 23, 2017 16:18:14 GMT -5
Well you all were right. I shot 3 more times allowing the barrel to cool in the shade 20 minutes between shots and no keyholes. Bad thing is it was a 3-1/2" group at 50yds. Do you think it's just a matter of adjusting the powder charge? Thanks
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Post by hunter on Jun 23, 2017 16:24:52 GMT -5
Use a cool rod if you have one. If not wait 10-15 min before reloading and keep gun in shade. Keep your sabots as cool as possible, keep them out of the sun. A wad under the sabot may also help in warmer weather.
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Post by smokepolehall on Jul 4, 2017 15:23:26 GMT -5
I have the NEF Slufoot converted, durin the hot months i shoot only early mornins n wait at least 30 min between shots. I only have enuff time fer 3 shots n its too warm. I put a dry wool wad under my sabot, i also don't shoot high fps either. I load up 30-35 gr of 4759 usin a 200 gr .40 cal SST. This mornin i shot a 1 ragged hole at 25 yds with 200 gr XTP n 16.5 gr of Blue dot
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Post by jp81 on Sept 30, 2017 9:51:07 GMT -5
Ok guys time for an update and more questions. Have been tinkering and found that 56gr h4198, dry wool wad and 200gr sst knurled in hlb sabots shoots pretty good(1 1/2" 3 shot group at 100 yds). I have read some bad reviews about these bullets as far as their performance on deer so I decided to try some Barnes expander 195gr. Exact same setup except for the bullets and I'm getting 6" to 8" groups. Have any of you experienced anything like this? I figured they would shoot very similar.
Also would like to know how to cope with this cool down period (I've been giving it 20minutes between shots) during hunting season. I'm going to want to reload right away after shooting a deer but if the barrel is hot enough to melt the sabot there's no telling where that second shot would hit.
I need some help deciding wheather to keep tinkering with these sabots or go sabot less Thanks
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Post by jp81 on Sept 30, 2017 10:15:40 GMT -5
Also forgot to mention that the sabots that I have recovered look ok Thanks
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Post by Dave W on Sept 30, 2017 10:42:19 GMT -5
You only jump barrel temp approximately 5-10 degrees after 1 shot, a follow up shouldn't be a problem. You get residual heat buildup sitting at the range shooting multiple shots with not enough cool down between shots, that can cause accuracy issues. You could try a more aggressive knurl on the BX to get the OD up. My gun always shot the BX better but I wouldn't be afrai to use the SST, just stay off the shoulder at close range.
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Post by smokepolehall on Sept 30, 2017 10:51:50 GMT -5
I don't think the SST 200 gr is a bad bullet. Its much better than the XTP's on staying together on closer shots. I run 18.5 of Blue Dot with the XTP's its good to 100 yds n that is farther than i can get a clear shot on my place.
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Post by Dave W on Sept 30, 2017 12:55:49 GMT -5
All assuming you don't have one of the bad batches of Barnes.
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Post by jp81 on Sept 30, 2017 16:54:05 GMT -5
Next time I shoot I think I will try the sabots that came with the Barnes bullets. They are a little thicker than the light blue ones and will make it a little tighter even though it seemed tight enough to me.
About the bad batch you mentioned What is wrong with them and is there a way to know if I did get some bad ones?
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Post by Dave W on Oct 1, 2017 9:42:11 GMT -5
I stopped shooting plastic years ago so I am not the best source for the info you need. IIRC there is something different about the base of the bad batches of the 195 BX's.
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Post by cvadave on Oct 1, 2017 10:15:48 GMT -5
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Post by psm207 on Oct 1, 2017 10:51:19 GMT -5
I would try a 4198 load somewhere between 45 and 49 grains. From my experience, pushing the 200 grain bullet fast in a sabot only caused accuracy and sabot issues. The tan sabot (made by MMP) performed better for me.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 1, 2017 21:54:02 GMT -5
i got to shoot a few more times today using the tan sabots that came with the Barnes bullets. They are definitely a lot tighter in the bore, takes a lot of effort to get them down. First couple shots with 56gr didn't shoot any better than before. I then shot 3 loaded with 50 grain and it was a little better but still about 4-1/2" at 100yd. Next time I think I'll use 45gr and see if that's any better. If that don't get me where I want to be do you think I need to try a heavier bullet? What is my approximate velocity with this bullet at the different loads mentioned above?
All the responses are much appreciated Thanks
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Post by eml9 on Oct 2, 2017 20:51:08 GMT -5
If your sure you haven't blown a sabot and you can't get the sst or xtp to shoot then just go sabotless . you will not regret it and you won't have to deal with waiting between shots for barrel cool down.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 3, 2017 9:18:16 GMT -5
What sabotless bullets would you recommend? Seems like a lot of guys are using Parker be 275. They are advertised at .451 if that's right they should be ok in my gun without sizing. Thanks
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Post by moto357 on Oct 4, 2017 5:41:28 GMT -5
You'll have to figure what size you need, best bet to get an adjustable due. Any of the h&r's ive handled were luckily just right for .452 bullets like the xtp300 or 250 without sizing right from the box. I've heard of others stating larger or tighter bores so don't take this as law
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Post by jp81 on Oct 4, 2017 15:14:43 GMT -5
I slugged the barrel and best I can tell it's about .455 and .451 between the lands. Would a .452 be about right for these measurements? Would the Parker be .451 be too loose? I've never shot the xtp bullets, are they better than the sst for deer? Thanks
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Post by moto357 on Oct 4, 2017 16:45:39 GMT -5
If you're not pushing them fast and don't plan on long shots the xtp's are fine. If your lands really do measure out to be .451 there's no way they'll fit. When loading sabotless bullets you'll soon find a few tenthousandths can be the difference between a bullet falling down the bore and needing a hammer.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 6, 2017 7:20:33 GMT -5
Does anyone have any experience with the Lehigh controlled Fracturing muzzleloader bullets Thanks
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Post by jp81 on Oct 8, 2017 9:49:10 GMT -5
I did some shots with 45gr h4198, cci mag primer, dry wool wad, 195 Barnes and was getting quiet a bit of unburnt powder. Seems to always have a little when shooting more powder but not as bad? Should I be concerned with this? Would a duplex load help and if so which other powder should I buy? The Barnes still don’t shoot good even with this lighter charge Thanks
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 9, 2017 14:59:45 GMT -5
I would order a small pack of the Parker 275s and try one for size or see if anyone can send you just a couple to try. If it will load without a hammer or falling down on its own then you are pretty much set. They can load surprisingly easy and still shoot very well.
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Post by jp81 on Oct 10, 2017 21:00:46 GMT -5
I have some Barnes TSX (275gr .451 diameter) on the way. Hopefully they will fit and shoot well. If they are the right size I will probably try the parkers sometime down the road. Thanks
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Post by jp81 on Oct 15, 2017 20:50:15 GMT -5
I got the Barnes 275 gr .451diameter and gave them a try today. They were loose so I knurled and got them to fit pretty good, not real tight at the muzzle but get very snug at the breech. I used 55gr h4198 and a dry wool wad. The first shot keyholed and the second shot missed the target entirely. I recovered one bullet and it looked good as new. I was excited about shooting sabotless now I’m not sure what to do. Any suggestions? Thanks
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