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Post by elktaker on Apr 27, 2016 13:39:57 GMT -5
I have been shooting:
270 emax with 95 gr of BH209. Muzzle velocity is 2396 saboless with a brake.
I am getting 4" of less groups at 400 (this is an axis build with 28" 1:20 28" barrel Brux)
I am through my first 50 emaxes.
Should I stick with EMAX or switch to another. I do not think I want to to MH due to my low velocity.
Wind is killing the little emax 3mph is 1.5 moa at 420yd. With a good read on wind I would shoot out to 425 yd with this load (I shoot 1000 to a mile often with my rifle)..
Are bombs and pittmans better option? I wish there was a 325 or 300gr emax.
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Post by rangeball on Apr 27, 2016 13:43:49 GMT -5
For hunting, punching paper or both?
The bombs worked well from bestill on both with similar velocities, I think.
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Post by elktaker on Apr 27, 2016 14:05:31 GMT -5
Hunting. Practice a lot on steel. Mostly deer/elk.
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Post by elktaker on Apr 27, 2016 14:14:46 GMT -5
For hunting, punching paper or both? The bombs worked well from bestill on both with similar velocities, I think. I have probably bother bestill too much during the build. |
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Post by bestill on Apr 27, 2016 15:12:59 GMT -5
My advice today is stick with emax for paper and target shooting.
For hunting i would without question shoot bombs. They are devastating on game terminal performance outstanding.
My testing to this point with blackhorn load emax is accuracy champ but bomb is very close.
I haven't done much work with pittman bullet.
This is mostly all smooth form did some fullform bombs with equal results.
Go to true smokeless load then fullform bombs win
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Post by elktaker on Apr 27, 2016 15:45:18 GMT -5
My advice today is stick with emax for paper and target shooting. For hunting i would without question shoot bombs. They are devastating on game terminal performance outstanding. My testing to this point with blackhorn load emax is accuracy champ but bomb is very close. I haven't done much work with pittman bullet. This is mostly all smooth form did some fullform bombs with equal results. Go to true smokeless load then fullform bombs win Thanks, I have been full forming the Emax. Extremely loose to the point it almost falls through a clean barrel. Loads one handed when fouled. I have shoot 15 shoots without cleaning and have not seen any loss in accuracy. Cleaned after that though hate leaving BH209 in my barrel. I am not convinced on how it will perform at 1800 fps and they cost $117 for 50. Any idea on your BC for the 300ish grain bombs at BH209 velocities and if I can get some anytime soon? Guess I need to message 7mm. My next hunt for muzzleloader this year is October and I should have a muzzleloader mule deer tag, archery bull elk, cow elk any weapon and possibly a doe antelope, so I will be busy come July/August scouting and hunting shortly after. Hoping to have the mz dialed in by then with the load I will hunt with. |
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Post by bestill on Apr 27, 2016 16:15:37 GMT -5
1800 fps  ?? Where does that come in? |
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Post by mtj555 on Apr 27, 2016 16:42:49 GMT -5
If you message 7mm, he may not respond until this weekend. He has been gone training.
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Post by elktaker on Apr 27, 2016 16:46:29 GMT -5
1800 fps ?? Where does that come in? Oops 1800 is ft lb of energy at 420 yards. Average velocity is 2396 FPS with no wad (I forgot them last time I was out) |
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Post by Earnhardt on Apr 27, 2016 16:49:38 GMT -5
APBs for my .458's... Match Hunters for my .451's... |
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Post by bestill on Apr 27, 2016 17:06:05 GMT -5
APBs for my .458's... Match Hunters for my .451's... Them are great bullets but with blackhorn i struggle with accuracy. Imo jacket to thick for low pressure blackhorn loads. |
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Post by Richard on Apr 27, 2016 18:31:54 GMT -5
Bestill.............which weight Pittman bullets have you tried? The 275 and 300's are working great for me!
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Post by Dave W on Apr 27, 2016 18:32:32 GMT -5
Think Keith said the 302 BOMBs are approx. .400 for BC.
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Post by elktaker on Apr 27, 2016 18:41:02 GMT -5
Think Keith said the 302 BOMBs are approx. .400 for BC. That would make it just under 1 moa less drop at 400 for the 302 bombs if I speculate that I would see a BC of .370 which is probably more realistic at BH209 speeds vs my current load with 270 emax (my BC validated at 421 is .305) 1 moa less for full value 10 mph wind as well which is a 20% advantage on wind calls so I will give the bombs a try if I can get some. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 18:42:10 GMT -5
Think Keith said the 302 BOMBs are approx. .400 for BC. From my conversations with Keith, they are a little higher but I'd start at .400 for BC but didn't velocities play a small role in BC's? Man it's been a long time since I've gotten to go to the range. Been super busy this year!! Glad to see others getting out and doing some lead slinging!! |
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Post by Dave W on Apr 27, 2016 18:44:24 GMT -5
Think Keith said the 302 BOMBs are approx. .400 for BC. From my conversations with Keith, they are a little higher but I'd start at .400 for BC but didn't velocities play a small role in BC's? Man it's been a long time since I've gotten to go to the range. Been super busy this year!! Glad to see others getting out and doing some lead slinging!! I think he might have said it was velocity dependent but don't hold me to that. |
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Post by elktaker on Apr 27, 2016 19:12:16 GMT -5
From my conversations with Keith, they are a little higher but I'd start at .400 for BC but didn't velocities play a small role in BC's? Man it's been a long time since I've gotten to go to the range. Been super busy this year!! Glad to see others getting out and doing some lead slinging!! I think he might have said it was velocity dependent but don't hold me to that. All BC's are velocity and twist dependent. Just how physics works. Bryan litz has a lot of data on this that's worth reading if you are into ballistics. |
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Post by bestill on Apr 27, 2016 20:24:31 GMT -5
Bestill.............which weight Pittman bullets have you tried? The 275 and 300's are working great for me! Ive done minimal testing with275 accumax and 2300 fps blackhorn load. And at this point the ballistic extreme and emax shoot a touch better than accumax but still moa . Competition shooting every bit counts. Only been testing to 326 yds. My 500 yd matches start in June so more testing soon |
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Post by bestill on Apr 27, 2016 20:44:51 GMT -5
I use.320 b.c. for270 emax
I think340 bc for302 bomb will be close at blackhorn speeds
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Post by elktaker on Apr 27, 2016 22:29:25 GMT -5
I use.320 b.c. for270 emax I think340 bc for302 bomb will be close at blackhorn speeds i calculated a BC of .305 using my kestrel sportsman for 270 Emax. This is only two 3 shot group at 421 yards and that is assuming my Leupold CDS is tracking correctly. I have ten left, I may have to see if I can get them on steel at 727 yd on a calm day soon to get a better idea of BC on them. |
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Post by lwh723 on Apr 28, 2016 6:58:50 GMT -5
I've had a some stellar reports from customers using the 310APB FF with BH209. I know they haven't vetted stuff as much as bestill has accuracy wise, but the one game reports for elk and mule deer have been really good too.
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Post by bestill on Apr 28, 2016 7:55:10 GMT -5
For fair and balanced reporting.
I shoot blackhorn powder exclusively and clean between every shot in timed events so for me fullform bullet are very difficult so i tend to shoot smooth form only.
I have been testing fullform and at this point in a allday shoot with changing atmosphere and effects on blackhorn fouling cant find the consistency im after.
Lukes apb bullet fullform is definitely a great bullet that will perform.
Each gun and bullet combination needs to fit your individual needs.
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Post by edge on Apr 28, 2016 8:30:41 GMT -5
i calculated a BC of .305 using my kestrel sportsman for 270 Emax. This is only two 3 shot group at 421 yards and that is assuming my Leupold CDS is tracking correctly. I have ten left, I may have to see if I can get them on steel at 727 yd on a calm day soon to get a better idea of BC on them. IMO, that is too far to get a real BC! Even with a BC of .400 and velocity of 2400 you are almost certainly transonic at 700 yards unless you are in the mountains! IMO, 600 would be about right with a BC of 0.40 and a BC of 0.30 450 should be ok for BC calculations. edge. |
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Post by elktaker on Apr 28, 2016 9:56:46 GMT -5
i calculated a BC of .305 using my kestrel sportsman for 270 Emax. This is only two 3 shot group at 421 yards and that is assuming my Leupold CDS is tracking correctly. I have ten left, I may have to see if I can get them on steel at 727 yd on a calm day soon to get a better idea of BC on them. IMO, that is too far to get a real BC! Even with a BC of .400 and velocity of 2400 you are almost certainly transonic at 700 yards unless you are in the mountains! IMO, 600 would be about right with a BC of 0.40 and a BC of 0.30 450 should be ok for BC calculations. edge. There is a gap at my range from 421 to 727 Yd. I will try to get a large paper target out for at 500 to 600 and she what happens. |
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Post by spc136 on Apr 28, 2016 15:34:05 GMT -5
Bestill have you tried full forming any of the pittman bullets with blackhorn 209 ? Also would a heavier bullet like a 325 pittman bullet help build Blackhorn 209 pressures ? Sorry for all the questions cant help always thinking !
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Post by lwh723 on Apr 28, 2016 15:41:34 GMT -5
Bestill have you tried full forming any of the pittman bullets with blackhorn 209 ? Also would a heavier bullet like a 325 pittman bullet help build Blackhorn 209 pressures ? Sorry for all the questions cant help always thinking ! In a 450/458 cal barrel, it's not really fullforming if it's a .452 cal bullet. |
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Post by spc136 on Apr 28, 2016 16:14:20 GMT -5
I didnt realize that . So a brux .450 barrel like the one im getting from you . I can only smooth form .452 and .458 bullets ?
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Post by lwh723 on Apr 28, 2016 16:16:36 GMT -5
.458 bullets get FF, .452 bullets get smoothed. You can use a FF die on a .452 bullet, but it really isn't true FF'ing since you're really not cutting any rifling.
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Post by spc136 on Apr 28, 2016 16:27:01 GMT -5
Ok thanks
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Post by dannoboone on Apr 29, 2016 5:26:52 GMT -5
.458 bullets get FF, .452 bullets get smoothed. You can use a FF die on a .452 bullet, but it really isn't true FF'ing since you're really not cutting any rifling. ......unless you knurl (with real knurling wheels--don't use a danged file)! |
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