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Post by brokenscope on Apr 13, 2016 5:58:42 GMT -5
I am bedding a Savage with a 28in pacnor heavy barrel. What distance would you recommend bedding in front of the barrel nut? Also would you float the rear tang? Its a wood stock. Thanks
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Post by tnhunter54 on Apr 13, 2016 6:05:29 GMT -5
I always stop the bedding 2" in front of the barrel nut, as for the tang that personal preference I did on one of my wood stocks but didn't on some of the composite ones.
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Post by dannoboone on Apr 13, 2016 12:16:56 GMT -5
The pro's over at savageshooters say to float the tang on a Savage,
and that's what I've always done. They have stated that the stock
can crack as a result of not floating, so I never chanced it.
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Post by jims on Apr 13, 2016 20:38:58 GMT -5
I have always left clearance under the safety. On the longer heavier replacement barrels I have bedded about two inches also past the recoil lug. On lighter contour and shorter barrels I have not done that.
I am not saying that is correct, I am just saying that is what I have done and it has worked well enough for me.
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Post by 10ga on Apr 15, 2016 16:22:21 GMT -5
X2 on above for jims. Same for me. 10
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Post by kbrezlin on Apr 15, 2016 17:16:36 GMT -5
Both of my 10ML2s I did had the nut and barrel floated, but one is a stock 50 and the other is a 26 inch pacnor 1.12 for 5" and tapered to 0.9 at the muzzle. They have a 3rd action screw 1 inch from the original rear screw so I wasn't to worried about them.
One CF conversing is a 2 screw action with a 26 inch 1.25 for 5" tapered to 1 inch at the muzzle, plus break. That is bedded 3 inches past the lug, did away with the barrel nut.
The other is a savage 3 screw PTA with a 28 inch brux, 1.25 for 5" tapered to 1" at the muzzle, plus break. This one is also nutless and is bedded 1" past the lug.
I was really concerned with the pacnor hanging all that weight off only 2 screw.
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Post by kbrezlin on Apr 15, 2016 17:29:34 GMT -5
Forgot. Both 10ml2s, the CF, and my 220 slug gun in a McMillian are bedded from the rear action screw forward. The PTA is bedded under the tang. I don't know if it matters on a MZ, but with a CF I have been told and read it can affect accuracy.
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Post by deertroy1 on Apr 16, 2016 8:22:55 GMT -5
I'm no gunsmith but I've bedded a few rifles. Here's a pic of mine. I floated the tang. As you can see I only went just past the barrel nut. I recently had to make an adjustment to the barrel and so I removed the bedding forward of the recoil lug (this was after this pic was taken). I wanted to shoot the thing before I replaced the bedding under the lug in case I had to make another adjustment. My rifle has shot really well so I haven't replaced the bedding under the nut. I would also be interested in advice from those who know about such things. Is not bedding forward of the lug placing to much stress on things with that much weight out front. I have a laminate thumbhole Savage 10 ML-II with a McGowen 50 (Savage factory profile).  |
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 17, 2016 14:20:54 GMT -5
Basic lever and fulcrum. By adding a small patch in front of the barrel nut your moving the fulcrum forward, so you are actually pulling up on the action screws with a long heavy barrel a little less then if the fulcrum was right behind the recoil lug. However a factor is also how tight the barrel tenon is if your squeezing every aspect going for max accuracy. So mileage may vary, IMO the heavier and longer the barrel the more gain. I try to do a 1" pad in front of the barrel nut (nut is not bedded) on a Savage and 1.5" in front of the recoil lug on a Remy. The big thing is your playing with the harmonics, Varmint Al has did a lot of work in this area. This is a bit exaggerated,  With rifles that have lighter or sporter weight barrels the fad used to be to put some tension between the barrel and the stock out on the forearm to try to gain some accuracy. You could take a business card and keep folding it till you had the right thickness and stick that in the barrel channel. Today you'll see stocks with little nubs in the barrel channel out at the end of the forearm. One guy was making a adjustable wedge set-up you could put in the forearm. The mack-daddy award goes to the guy that wanted to hid it, mainly from the competition but it went thru several NRA tech inspections IIRC. He had what looked like a regular sling swivel stud out on the forearm but it was actually the adjusting screw for this block in the barrel channel. If he wanted to up the tension he could just give the stud an 1/8th turn. You could get by bedding the tang on a PTA, any other Savage 10/110 action it would give you fits. |
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Post by deertroy1 on Apr 17, 2016 16:13:18 GMT -5
So looking at my stock above, in order to bed a one inch pad forward of the barrel nut, I would have to basically bed two separate pads one each side of the ramrod retention spring?
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Post by smokelessindian84 on Apr 17, 2016 19:11:51 GMT -5
So looking at my stock above, in order to bed a one inch pad forward of the barrel nut, I would have to basically bed two separate pads one each side of the ramrod retention spring? I think you are gonna want to put some plumbers putty in there. |
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Post by deertroy1 on Apr 17, 2016 20:00:45 GMT -5
I realize that. I was just wondering if Rossman actually bedded that was or maybe he had a stock without an attached ramrod.
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Post by smokelessindian84 on Apr 17, 2016 20:55:51 GMT -5
I understand what you're trying to do now.
What's the consensus on bedding the barrel nut.
I see Rossman is saying not to bed the nut. I figured you would want it bedded along with the action and recoil lug. Then have the barrel floating out of the nut in the barrel channel.
I understand and have heard of the trick on the sporter/pencil barrels before.
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Post by kbrezlin on Apr 18, 2016 4:31:24 GMT -5
Both of mine have 0.020 clearance around the nut.
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Post by deertroy1 on Apr 18, 2016 13:53:48 GMT -5
Both of mine have 0.020 clearance around the nut. ...........and are they bedded forward of the nut? If so, how far? Did you run into the issue with the ramrod rention spring? |
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 18, 2016 15:35:30 GMT -5
That does almost look like one of my early bedding jobs. Notice what looks like the swapped out pillars to aluminum.
What you run into if you bed the nut is that the sharp edges (one design class I had called them "transitions", no corners or edges just transitions) can give you problems. Lets say your dropping the action into the bedded stock and one of the sharp edges you left scrapes the bedding. You end up with the action resting not on your perfect bedding job but a small pile of scraped off epoxy and stressed. True you can limit this by filling each spline with putty and radius every transition in the bedding and on the action. Another problem is that the barrel, recoil lug, and barrel nut are not rigidly attached to the action. Pretty close but could possibly float around a few tenths (a tenth is .0001). It doesn't have to be a solid pad, you can have the ramrod cut still going down the middle with pads on both sides.
Similar problems are like the aftermarket recoil lugs, they are 90 degrees but sharp enough to cut you. You end up shaving a little bedding off each time and it piles up in the bottom of the lug slot. Think you got a great bedding job, feel the recoil lug and see if the guy took the time to knock the sharp edges off. Another problem area is on pre-CNC Savage actions there is a letter stamped between the recoil lug and the front action screw. If you did a good job on your release agent you will have a perfect raised letter in the bedding. If your a little off on assembly your again not on the bedding but on that raised letter. The 700ML has that cut between recoil lug and the action, you can fill in the cut or radius the bump in the bedding.
As much as I hate giving out secrets,, If you have to fill a large area try foam instead. I get the close cell foam (not Styrofoam) board and cut it close, jam it in and put some release agent on it. Another I've seen used is the green florist foam (to get it free wait till after memorial day and find out where the local cemetery piles up the floral arrangements). Lot less clean up then the putties.
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Post by smokelessindian84 on Apr 18, 2016 16:26:56 GMT -5
I put putty in all the slots on my barrel nut otherwise I was afraid it might get mechanically locked to the stock.
I used no tape on my recoil lug just a layer of release agent. She is a bit of a bear to get apart but I'm not planning on having it apart very often. Had it together and apart a few times now and have not seen the shavings you speak of yet. Raised letter seems to stay raised and sharp. But it could easily be removed.
It won't be a big deal to sand the bedding where the barrel nut sits to get a little clearance if necessary also.
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Post by deertroy1 on Apr 18, 2016 16:54:35 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be a solid pad, you can have the ramrod cut still going down the middle with pads on both sides. As much as I hate giving out secrets,, If you have to fill a large area try foam instead. I get the close cell foam (not Styrofoam) board and cut it close, jam it in and put some release agent on it. The ramrod cut still going down the middle with pads on both sides, is what I was wondering. I think I'll do this. I've always used the closed cell foam for large cut outs. Working as a carpenter/maintenance supervisor I always have access to scraps of the stuff. Thanks for the info. |
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Post by kbrezlin on Apr 19, 2016 18:17:26 GMT -5
There is some bedding past the nut but the channel was milled out for the ramrod on the stock 50. On the pacnor 45 the entire barrel channel was milled out to fit the new barrel, and then bedding was laid in the entire length solid so I did away with the ramrod on the gun and use a collapsible one. With at least 0.020 clearance around the barrel.
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 19, 2016 19:06:55 GMT -5
Bedding the whole barrel channel, I bet that came out pretty awesome! I would wear the action screws out taking the action out of the stock to show people. The most common stock I do is the Boyds Varmint Thumbhole and with the cooling vents I like to give ample room underneath for cooling. I'm probly .040 for the first 5-6" just for that on rifles I know will see a lot of bench time.
On the florist foam they make a "wet" foam for live plants, usually green, and a "dry" foam they usually use for artificial plants, usually brown. The wet foam will hold moisture forever once wet so if your raiding the dumpster go for the artificial plants. If not you can go to Hobby Lobby or Michaels and get a lifetime supply for less the $10. I like it because if it is a tad to big you can crush it a bit and it will not spring back some like closed cell board.
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Post by kbrezlin on Apr 20, 2016 19:31:38 GMT -5
  Hopefully this picture posting worked. The barrel channel was bedded because for the contour I wanted it needed to be opened up and the strength maintained. |
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Post by kbrezlin on Apr 20, 2016 19:35:42 GMT -5
Success for Rossman! You can see on the end when it was plugged and it would have got pretty thin on the laminate. Bedded from the rear action screw forward. The 9/16 pillar went in 1 inch from the original rear action screw. Cant take the credit for the work, I had it done.
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Post by brokenscope on Apr 27, 2016 5:08:41 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help l will bed it soon.
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Post by rossman40 on May 10, 2016 14:05:48 GMT -5
Kbrezlin, That does look pretty awesome! Is it full contact in the barrel channel?
Brokenscope, As long as you do not glue/lock the action in the stock you can always grind the bedding back out and start over. The biggest mistakes I see is the bedding not thick enough, action screws not centered in the pillars, and too much release agent. Any questions holler out...
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Post by brokenscope on May 10, 2016 15:15:10 GMT -5
Ok thanks the bedding job turned out good well at least it appears good. I just got done shooting and it shot a 2in 6 shot group with sized 300 ssts. First time ive shot those but im pretty dissapointed. I bedded the barrell about 3 in and torqued action at 25 in lbs. Bullets were sized. I wiped the wax off bullets with cloth but forgot to use alcohol. Its a 28in .458 pacnor barrell. Will try some 310s maybe tomm.
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Post by rossman40 on May 11, 2016 13:42:48 GMT -5
Was the group stringing on the vertical? If more on the horizontal I would tighten her down some. If properly bedded you can go up to 65 in/lbs. Start off at 35 and shoot a group and then go up to 45. Somewhere I read/was told a 1/4-28 screw at 35 in/lbs gives 300lbs of clamping force but it is like half that at 25. What did you use for bedding compound?
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Post by kbrezlin on May 11, 2016 18:07:17 GMT -5
0.020 around the barrel and nut.
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Post by brokenscope on May 11, 2016 20:16:40 GMT -5
Mostly vertical and I used devcon. I put a piece of tape on the barrell nut when bedding. I have been shootinguphil so l got a more level range set up today.
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Post by brokenscope on May 11, 2016 20:19:20 GMT -5
I had trouble with vertical stringing before l bedded the rifle also. I may need to tighten up on the ff die.
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Post by elktaker on May 13, 2016 0:22:24 GMT -5
I stop at the lug. Goal is fully bedded action and float barrel.
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