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Post by ourway77 on Nov 26, 2015 11:45:38 GMT -5
OK I found a SS Remington 700 I want to build a smokeless on that action, I am a real novice, therefore I don't know the first thing about going about it. So I would really appreciate some one stepping forward and detailing where I should start. I have been away from the sight for some time. Also if some one does this on the sight Please reply Thanks Lou
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Post by smokeeter on Nov 26, 2015 12:56:00 GMT -5
get hold of Luke (Arrowhead Sporting goods) he'll fix you up
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Post by rambler on Nov 26, 2015 12:58:31 GMT -5
get hold of Luke (Arrowhead Sporting goods) he'll fix you up +1 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 15:12:57 GMT -5
700SA or 700ML? Either way the arrowhead plug is the best available on any platform so start there and work around that. Any barrel manufacturer will perform well for our needs, a lot of chatter has been about the cut rifling barrels but there isn't anything wrong with button rifled. The most important factor IMO is end to end consistency so I would stay away from pacnor and krieger if it were my own build. Brux, shilen, and broughton are the best at consistent land measurement throughout. I would stick with a one piece steel scope base as well, not sure manufacturer really matters just make sure you lap your rings.
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Post by mimath314 on Nov 26, 2015 16:01:29 GMT -5
+2
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Nov 26, 2015 17:08:17 GMT -5
Is Krieger having a quality control issue with consistency that I am unaware of? Very curious ...since I am anticipating a new build
Thanks in advance
Drop
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 26, 2015 17:19:20 GMT -5
Is Krieger having a quality control issue with consistency that I am unaware of? Very curious ...since I am anticipating a new build Thanks in advance Drop I know of 2 recent not so good Krieger barrels, one really inconsistent, one not contoured as ordered. |
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Nov 26, 2015 17:47:42 GMT -5
Is Krieger having a quality control issue with consistency that I am unaware of? Very curious ...since I am anticipating a new build Thanks in advance Drop I know of 2 recent not so good Krieger barrels, one really inconsistent, one not contoured as ordered. Was Krieger contacted ? Did they offer to correct the problem ? Thanks Drop |
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Post by 7mmfreak on Nov 26, 2015 18:20:38 GMT -5
I know you have good luck with Shilen but they are the only bad barrel I've had. I've had very good luck with Krieger, Pac-nor, Douglas, Benchmark, and Lilja. My Brux seems to be pretty middle of the road sort of like my McGowen; decent groups as average, fantastic as an anomaly.
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 26, 2015 18:41:57 GMT -5
I know of 2 recent not so good Krieger barrels, one really inconsistent, one not contoured as ordered. Was Krieger contacted ? Did they offer to correct the problem ? Thanks Drop Yes they were contacted on the barrel that wasn't profiled right, they offered a discount on " the next barrel".. Not sure if they've been contacted on the one that is inconsistent. They definitely should be, it's by far the most inconsistent barrel I've ever personally seen. I've never personally owned a Shilen so I can't comment on them, yet. My PacNors are "ok", the McGowen I had was as good as could be. |
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Nov 26, 2015 19:19:37 GMT -5
Hmmmmm I find this disturbing
Drop
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Post by rambler on Nov 26, 2015 19:26:32 GMT -5
This is the first even slightly negative thing I've ever read or heard about Krieger.
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Post by Dave W on Nov 26, 2015 19:46:40 GMT -5
My Kreiger is choked on both ends, tight at the muzzle and breech and loose in the middle. Won't be contacting them after Guy got nowhere with them, and I will not do business with them again!
The three that cmc mentioned would be my first choice and have heard good things about Douglas but never shot one.
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Post by lwh723 on Nov 26, 2015 20:11:05 GMT -5
I have yet to shoot a Brux that wasn't excellent top to bottom. McGowen is very hit or miss on choking and bore diameter. Pac-Nor has gotten a lot better and don't see a lot of choked ones from them (but still once in a while). Pac-Nors were trending looser in diameter, but they retooled and everything is nice and tight again for sabots.
I think some of the issue is people order a barrel and fail to mention that it's for a MZ. Or, speculation here, whoever is doing the lapping on a one barrel order might fail to remember that it's for an MZ?
They all have messed up a contour/length at least once for me.
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 26, 2015 20:49:33 GMT -5
I think the skinny is, you can get a less than perfect barrel from any manufacturer, crap happens.
When's McGowen gonna have their cut rifle barrels available? I seen a while back where they were starting the process.
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Post by Richard on Nov 26, 2015 22:37:04 GMT -5
I can not say for certain on the muzzle loader barrels but when you look at the equipment list for long range center fire matches, Krieger is at the top of the list probably followed by Brux and then Bartlein. Shilen, Pac-Nor, Lilja, Hart and McGowan are practically not seen. My new Shilen only has a few shots thru it so I can not really comment. Elkman seems to love the ones he has and has done build on so we shall see. It would be hard for me to bad mouth Krieger since my former record group was shot with one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 23:04:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure that inconsistency causes an accuracy issue for us but there is very little that's more aggravating than a choppy bore. Some of the best shooters I've ever put together were mcgowen prefits from Luke. I don't mind a little chop in a $330 mcgowen but my $500+ Krieger better be dead nuts with the way they tout themselves. They claim you can order the exact same barrel from stored programming but I ordered Dave W and Guy's barrels the exact same call but the land/groove ratio is different by enough to make the sizing dies not interchangeable. I know you can use a drop from any Brux Luke has to size for all his Brux he orders. I don't follow the benchrest scene but from the little bit I've read Bartlein has overtaken Krieger as the most popular barrel. Since they aren't currently producing barrels for any caliber we use I can't say how their consistency is compared to Brux. I know Keith had a bad experience from shilen and I don't recall the situation but I know the 375 and larger barrels I have gotten have shot well and are lapped perfectly.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Nov 27, 2015 6:54:43 GMT -5
My Shilen issue boiled down to a barrel with a large scratch/inclusion mid bore and piss poor CS like what you are getting from Krieger right now.
Bartlein is the most popular in my shooting discipline followed closely by Hawk Hill; they make up half. The next three are Proof, Benchmark, and Brux (a bad batch of 6mm and 6.5mm killed their rep in PRS 2 yrs ago); make up 20%. Then you have Krieger, Broughton, Lilja, Hart, and Muller.
Shooters are fickle and it's a gear race too often. Hawk Hill wasn't on the chart two years ago and Krieger was top two. I expect to see Benchmark continue to climb and K/P barrels to become a household name.
I think they all make good barrels but I think an ML barrel requires more diligence to ensure that it loads smoothly as well as shoots well.
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Post by Dave W on Nov 27, 2015 7:01:10 GMT -5
I'm not sure that inconsistency causes an accuracy issue for us but there is very little that's more aggravating than a choppy bore. Some of the best shooters I've ever put together were mcgowen prefits from Luke. I don't mind a little chop in a $330 mcgowen but my $500+ Krieger better be dead nuts with the way they tout themselves. They claim you can order the exact same barrel from stored programming but I ordered Dave W and Guy's barrels the exact same call but the land/groove ratio is different by enough to make the sizing dies not interchangeable. I know you can use a drop from any Brux Luke has to size for all his Brux he orders. I don't follow the benchrest scene but from the little bit I've read Bartlein has overtaken Krieger as the most popular barrel. Since they aren't currently producing barrels for any caliber we use I can't say how their consistency is compared to Brux. I know Keith had a bad experience from shilen and I don't recall the situation but I know the 375 and larger barrels I have gotten have shot well and are lapped perfectly. Bullets sized for my barrel fall straight to the floor in Guy's barrel, same twist and caliber. Another builder said Kreiger is not a likely candidate for sizing for multiple barrels with the same die- looks to be true from our barrels. I am sure my choked barrel will shoot better than I can but who tells a customer, we screwed your order up but give us more money, we will get it right next time? Somebody that thinks their ish doesn't stink. |
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Post by ourway77 on Nov 27, 2015 12:21:40 GMT -5
Thanks again for all the information I e-mailed Luke and will await his reply if he can't help me who would be a good gunsmith on the sight to convert the Rem 700 ML I just bought. I contacted Hankin and he said he wouldn't build on a Rem ML'er action only a center fire action.
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Post by cfarrell on Nov 27, 2015 13:44:00 GMT -5
Cmc firearms (see his replys above) Cole just built my new gun and was great to work with.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Nov 27, 2015 13:49:42 GMT -5
There are several PREMIUM builders on this board. And you will get recomendations for all of them. I personally suggest you contact them by phone. Ask for references and check them out. Some will require you to acquire the parts and ship them to them....some will have access to the parts for you. Using a ML action keeps all shipping doors open to you and the builder. Or you can order the parts needed and have them drop shipped to your builder. But DO call them and make it a personal choice. Ask about delivery time also. We all have our favorites. And I haven't heard anything bad about ANY of the people building here.
Do your Homework...ask them for recommended ...necessary....or ....personal upgrades
Good luck
Drop
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Post by miketodd58 on Nov 27, 2015 14:30:34 GMT -5
Brux Barrel and Get the HIS Hankins Plug system. Both winners IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 14:34:05 GMT -5
Good choice mike, that system will work notta on his action.
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Post by miketodd58 on Nov 27, 2015 14:52:38 GMT -5
Good choice mike, that system will work notta on his action. I did not read all the way down to see where he was using a 700 ML. In his original post he said Rem 700. Yeah I would say he is limited on the plug system then. Did I read somewhere where Jeff Hankins was coming out with a new 209 System that would work with the 700 ML? Or was it going to be limited to the 700 Centerfire only??? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 14:54:03 GMT -5
If you read you will see Jeff already told him to get lost.
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 27, 2015 15:39:49 GMT -5
OK I found a SS Remington 700 I want to build a smokeless on that action, I am a real novice, therefore I don't know the first thing about going about it. So I would really appreciate some one stepping forward and detailing where I should start. I have been away from the sight for some time. Also if some one does this on the sight Please reply Thanks Lou What caliber are you looking to build? |
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Post by 7mmfreak on Nov 27, 2015 16:08:48 GMT -5
Brux Barrel and Get the HIS Hankins Plug system. Both winners IMHO. HIS still doesn't work on a 700ML and his 209 is a module just like his LR module. |
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Post by ourway77 on Nov 28, 2015 9:37:22 GMT -5
I would like a proven barrel and the accessories needed to make a 45 Caliber smokeless sabot less rifle. I have a SS Remington 700 ML for the donor action and using the same 700 stock Thanks Lou
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Post by rambler on Nov 28, 2015 9:49:40 GMT -5
I would like a proven barrel and the accessories needed to make a 45 Caliber smokeless sabot less rifle. I have a SS Remington 700 ML for the donor action and using the same 700 stock Thanks Lou Has no one PM'd you? Have you PM'd anyone that has been suggested? |
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