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Post by Yankee Bill on Nov 22, 2015 15:24:11 GMT -5
Hi Folks,
I was a member on the "old" board but just started posting on this "new" board. I've still been hunting with my .50 Henry Ball 10ML-II that I bought when they first came out, just haven't been active on the boards much, so I'm kinda out of the loop on some of SML advancements (and there sure have been a lot).
After my annual hunting trip this yr. to the Blue Ridge MTNS. in VA. I've come to the conclusion that I no longer have a desire, nor a need, to be humping the 11#(ish) Laminated Savage up and down Mtns. & hauling it 20' up to my portable on a parachute cord, along w/ my backpack attached. The fact that I'm closing in on the big 60 coupled with Rotator Cuff & Back problems is factoring in to it as well.
Anyhow, I'm researching lightweight "treestand gun" & load options for shots @ <150 yds., with 90% of them being at more typical bow hunting ranges, and I'll only be using the gun for hunting and a few pre-season practice sessions each yr.
Right now I'm considering either a CVA Scout V2, or Apex for the conversion. I'm leaning towards the 6# Scout which has a 1-14" bbl. but is cheap enough that I'd buy a 1-20" Apex 45-70 Bergara bbl. if need, and if it fits the Scout action (I'm calling CVA in the A.M. to confirm). The reason I'm considering the Scout first VS. Apex is the scout has a 1" shorter compact stock avail. for it and I'd have to cut the Apex stock, which I'd prefer not to. (My neck always seem to shrink when I'm in my Climbing stand w/ a heavy coat on).
As I stated earlier I've been out of the loop a while and not up to par on the whole .40/.45 thing. I'd like to abide by the "KISS" method as much as possible for strictly hunting loads and <150 yds. I won't have a bbl. drop for a FF die, so from what I can gather from searching my options are either smooth form .45 sabotless or .40 w/ sabot. Being that I'm not looking for any "hot" loads for long range I'd like to keep MV to 2100-2200 fps if possible.
Is 2100-2200 fps even possible with smooth sized .45 sabotless bullets? From what I can gather they may not obturate at this speed. Would the .40 195 Barnes w/ blue sabot work @ this speed & distances? I just don't want anything too fast that will tear deer up too much. Any other suggestions?
Sorry for such a long post but I tend to get to rambling when my Pea Brain gets too many variables swimming around in it at one time.
Appreciate any input you may have to offer.
Thanks,
YB
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Post by jims on Nov 22, 2015 19:32:50 GMT -5
At the ranges you are talking and the KISS principle the 195 Barnes and the light blue sabots should fit the bill easily in a .45 caliber barrel. You can get all the speed you need or wish to stay away from especially at under 150 yards. That is a proven combo for sure. Good to see you back on this site.
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 22, 2015 20:01:15 GMT -5
You could also build a lightweight bolt gun in 40 cal. There's always options. The Apex would serve you well, they are proven shooters.
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Post by dannoboone on Nov 22, 2015 20:58:01 GMT -5
Ya might want to read this before getting a scout: dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/18097/cva-scout-shooting-all-overI sort of doubt he tried hard enough to find his problem, but ya never know. I've heard only good things about Apex conversions. Yes, 'tis tough getting older. I have your problems and at 64, am wondering how much longer I can tote around these beasts over 10#! |
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Post by Dave W on Nov 23, 2015 8:33:19 GMT -5
I would get Cole to chop the stock and put one of Lukes plugs in an Apex, proven gun as others mentioned. Shoot saboted bullets or run the 200 or 225gr FTX's sabotless with a faster burning powder for recoil management.
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Post by davesonic444 on Nov 23, 2015 9:47:46 GMT -5
I maybe off on my thinking, but why not just pickup a regular inline and use Blackhorn 209 powder in it. You can get all the speed you need for those ranges.I just gave away a cva 45 cal to my brother for his kids to do just that. It prints 1 inch groups and is plenty for those ranges. I shot sabotted shockwaves in it. It had a fixed 4 power scope and took plenty deer.
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Post by schunter on Nov 23, 2015 12:44:13 GMT -5
My Knight Ultra-Lite comes in at just over 7 pounds scoped and shoots BH209 and the 275 BE sub moa at 100 yds. One of the main reasons I bought it was the weight and length made it a perfect treestand gun. I also think a converted Apex would fit your needs for BH209 or smokeless for the range and speed you have indicated.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Nov 23, 2015 18:46:24 GMT -5
Appreciate the input Fellas.
Well, I spoke w/ CVA today and looks like the options I was looking to get for a Scout conversion are not available, so the Scout is off the list.
I Have no interest in shooting Subs (that's why I I've been inquiring in the SML forums), but thanks for the suggestions anyway. Also, looking strictly at Break-Actions for the conversion, not interested in doing a bolt @ this time, but appreciate the suggestions just the same.
So, I guess it'll be either the Apex, or, H&R. With the apex, I'd have to have to cut 1" - 1.5" off the stock for the LOP I need, not sure that would be possible w/ that Monte Carlo stock, & still have some meat left to secure a recoil pad. The CVA rep. said I'd have to use a slip-on pad if I cut it that much, but I'll check with some other folks to confirm this.
YB
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Post by sw on Nov 23, 2015 22:28:14 GMT -5
I have the H&R HandiRifle (20" barrel). I've shot up to 36-37g VV-110 with 195B, LBH, WW. Similar performance can be obtained with 4759. 33g VV-110 gives about 2275'/sec with sub MOA 5 shot accuracy @ 100 yds. Richard, notice the 5-shot? This would be a rifle to consider. Using these two faster powders at 32 or greater wt gives very acceptable speed and a high enough pressure to not be temp sensitive. Don't think old!! I'm closing in on 70, and carry my 10 1/2# 45 PacNor , Lam 10ML-2, but prefer the HandiRifle normally.  |
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Post by Yankee Bill on Nov 24, 2015 0:21:18 GMT -5
I have the H&R HandiRifle (20" barrel). I've shot up to 36-37g VV-110 with 195B, LBH, WW. Similar performance can be obtained with 4759. 33g VV-110 gives about 2275'/sec with sub MOA 5 shot accuracy @ 100 yds. Richard, notice the 5-shot? This would be a rifle to consider. Using these two faster powders at 32 or greater wt gives very acceptable speed and a high enough pressure to not be temp sensitive. Don't think old!! I'm closing in on 70, and carry my 10 1/2# 45 PacNor , Lam 10ML-2, but prefer the HandiRifle normally. Yeah, I wish I could locate one of H&R's Ultra Hunters w/ the S/S receiver and BBL.. I'd swap out the Laminated Thumbhole stock & forend for the compact composite and I think that might be the cats meow for what I need. I imagine it will be pretty hard to find one now. Couldn't find any place on line that still had any in stock. Don't know if there might be any still floating around the Gun Shows but might be worth a try. YB |
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Post by rossman40 on Nov 24, 2015 0:58:55 GMT -5
The son is selling the 45-70 Handirifle he bought for the granddaughter. He put the AR style stock on it and then tried the Hornady 325gr "grizzly bear killer" load and just watching the recoil scared her and she doesn't want to even shoot it. It's up on Armslist.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Nov 24, 2015 8:50:05 GMT -5
The son is selling the 45-70 Handirifle he bought for the granddaughter. He put the AR style stock on it and then tried the Hornady 325gr "grizzly bear killer" load and just watching the recoil scared her and she doesn't want to even shoot it. It's up on Armslist. Appreciate the heads-up rossman. I'd really like to try to track down a S/S model if possible, if I decide to go w/ the H&R. But I'm still researching and trying to decide between them and the Apex. Thanks, YB |
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Post by hawghunter on Nov 24, 2015 11:23:13 GMT -5
You are on the right track with an Apex 45-70 conversion.
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Post by rangeball on Nov 24, 2015 11:28:33 GMT -5
No matter what build you end up with, if the goal is 0-150 load choice becomes easy. Harvester smooth blue and a barnes 195x, driven at whatever speed gets you the point and shoot kill zone you desire. Easy handling, low recoil and a great terminal performer. I'd look at lower doses of N110 for easy light up and temp stability.
Would really be a rock solid set up.
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Post by donw28 on Nov 24, 2015 11:37:02 GMT -5
No matter what build you end up with, if the goal is 0-150 load choice becomes easy. Harvester smooth blue and a barnes 195x, driven at whatever speed gets you the point and shoot kill zone you desire. Easy handling, low recoil and a great terminal performer. I'd look at lower doses of N110 for easy light up and temp stability. Would really be a rock solid set up. Just out of curiosity how does 4759 stack up against N110 for temp stability as a single load? Same sabot and Barnes bullet if anyone has tried it. Having a barrel built for my wife's Encore and I'm looking for loads with the Barnes. Might want to push the range out to 200 though. And I need something that will work in NC in October (75 degrees) and Nebraska in mid-December. She was shooting 10/50 (4759/4198) in her Rempac with phenomenal accuracy with the same bullet/sabot. Also had great luck with 60 gr. RL7. Have no idea on the temp sensitivity though of either. Thanks, Don |
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Post by Yankee Bill on Nov 24, 2015 11:47:20 GMT -5
You are on the right track with an Apex 45-70 conversion. The trouble I'm having is locating one. No one around me has any in stock, and I'd really like to fondle one before I commit to buying one. YB |
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Post by Yankee Bill on Nov 24, 2015 11:51:47 GMT -5
No matter what build you end up with, if the goal is 0-150 load choice becomes easy. Harvester smooth blue and a barnes 195x, driven at whatever speed gets you the point and shoot kill zone you desire. Easy handling, low recoil and a great terminal performer. I'd look at lower doses of N110 for easy light up and temp stability. Would really be a rock solid set up. Roger that rangeball. That combo is on the top of my list to try & I've got a lb. of N110 in my stash too  YB |
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Post by rangeball on Nov 24, 2015 14:25:30 GMT -5
No matter what build you end up with, if the goal is 0-150 load choice becomes easy. Harvester smooth blue and a barnes 195x, driven at whatever speed gets you the point and shoot kill zone you desire. Easy handling, low recoil and a great terminal performer. I'd look at lower doses of N110 for easy light up and temp stability. Would really be a rock solid set up. Just out of curiosity how does 4759 stack up against N110 for temp stability as a single load? Same sabot and Barnes bullet if anyone has tried it. Having a barrel built for my wife's Encore and I'm looking for loads with the Barnes. Might want to push the range out to 200 though. And I need something that will work in NC in October (75 degrees) and Nebraska in mid-December. She was shooting 10/50 (4759/4198) in her Rempac with phenomenal accuracy with the same bullet/sabot. Also had great luck with 60 gr. RL7. Have no idea on the temp sensitivity though of either. Thanks, Don I think SR4759 will stack up very nicely. It has a very similar burn rate to N110, maybe just a tad slower as it seems to take a few more grains to match velocities. Many have used it as a starter in a duplex for their .50s in the past to ensure cold weather ignition. It doesn't burn as clean as N110 but not really classified as dirty. If it's what you have, by all means use it. It won't take much to stretch the range out to 200 very effectively. I would suspect the duplex to be much more temp stable than the RL7 as a single. There just hasn't been a lot of PT data captured with it over temp extremes, and some anecdotal evidence to say it may be temp sensitive for FPS concerns, but I really don't know. I have a pound of it sitting here and haven't even cracked it open. |
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