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Post by sw on Nov 16, 2015 8:01:03 GMT -5
I've been doing a little more testing with my 195 loads. They fall far short of my 200SST loads as range extends past 150-175 yds. Also, they are really affected by xwinds.
Originally, I'd accepted the BC of 0.195 for the 195g Barnes and 0.265 for the 200SST. The SST at high velocities tends to live up to its BC, but the Barnes doesn't live up to its lowly 0.195. There's a reason for this. It's coefficient is published as 0.176 not 0.195. That's a lot like throwing a brick. My shots are normally <200 yds . I'll keep throwing the brick most of the time. However, Barnes terminal performance is so good, I'm planning on exploring reaching up to a 300 yd load with some Barnes load. Wish they made a 0.400" ,195-220 TEZ. They do make the 250 TEZ (0.195 BC) and 250 TMZ (0.210 BC) and these in 290g with higher BCs. Then there are the MHs (250,275,300s) that can be sized with smooth sizing. However, I've torn up so many scopes during my first 5 years of testing the 10ML/MM-2, I'd like to stay with lighter recoil. These are just some rambling thoughts . However, consider my load of 10/50 with the 195B: 1.8" hi 100 yds (2.2" xwind for 10 mph), 200 yds (2.6" lo, 9.9" 10mph xw) , 250 yd (9.2" lo, 16.2 xw),300 yd ( 19.7" lo, 24.7 xw). A 200 yd bullet at best, and under the right conditions a little farther. At 250 yds, it's below 1000 ft lb .
Go to Barnes Bullets and look at their BCs.
Now to an alternative load. A close friend of mine got a 10ML -2 the year they came out. Started a load of 45g VV-110, 250 TMZ, 3" hi @ 100. Sighted it in with 4-5 shots, has used it ever since, shooting out to 250 yds. Kills everything he shoots at (up to 250 yds, missed a farther shot),. Always DRT. Has killed deer/elk every year with it. Has below 100 shots. Never changed ventliner. He's measuring it today. I told him, he's living on borrowed time. He has 3 more that came with the gun. He always wondered why I went to 45 and 40 cal barrels. He shoots it once before season @ 100 yds: it's always on. He has a Swarovski scope on it.
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Post by mrbuck on Nov 16, 2015 9:36:36 GMT -5
Thanks for your information on the Barnes bullets . I have used the Barnes Tipped bullets in shotgun slugs with great success but descent accuracy in my Savage MLIIs seemed impossible to obtain . Parker BEs and Hornady SSTs worked fine in all my guns .
After reading so much about knurling , I picked up some of the Barnes 250gr. Tipped bullets to give it one more try . I gave each bullet ( what I thought ) was a light knurl and replaced the blue sabots with MMP Short Sabots . The bullets knurled up just slightly over .452" . I picked 44.0 of N110 for a good quick " kick " to obtuate the bullet and also picked the hot Fed .209A primer . I picked my SS Thumbhole with a Leupold 3.5-10 to see if accuracy would improve .
With one shot ( an XTP in a short MMP with N110 ) to foul the barrel , the first two shots at 100 yards were touching 2 1/2" high but about 1/2" to the left of the verticle line of my target cross .The third shot went just about 1/3" inch to the left of the two that touched but still at 2 1/2" high . Measured at home the group was just barely an inch . I moved the scope adjustment one click to the right .
The next morning was calm and 50 degrees so I took the uncleaned rifle back to the range but also brought my chronograph . The shot was 2 1/2" high and right on the verticle line at 2428 f.p.s. I waited my usual 10 minutes , loaded and fired another shot . This shot 2395 F.P.S. but did not appear on the paper . With at least 10 minutes to wait , I walked down to the target . The second shot had just enlarged the first ! Knowing when to quit , I took the target down , packed up and went home happy that I've improved the accuracy with this bullet and at about 2400 f.p.s. The testing will continue .
( Richard ... next time I'll shoot three ! )
Chris
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Post by rangeball on Nov 16, 2015 14:46:42 GMT -5
sw, are you shooting these saboted or sabotless from you .40?
Steve,Carlos and I think Guy have gotten the original version 1 of the .40 CEBS to shoot exceptionally well sabotless from their .40s. You may want to pick their brain as CEB is selling the bullets. Off the top of my head the calculated BC when designing them was .320ish. A big leap over the 195BX if you can get them to shoot. They do weigh 240gr, may want to consider a brake to keep the recoil down.
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Post by sw on Nov 16, 2015 19:13:09 GMT -5
My 40 is resting at the moment. I have 3 45s, 1 40 and still have an early stock 50 but only have 3 Sav 10ML Stocks/receivers. And a Handi Rifle conversion. I'll get back to it. Where are these bullets sold? Will the 16 twist adequately stabilize this bullet? I expect it will. Loads often used in 40 sabotless with the 240g bullet?
Thanks. SW
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 16, 2015 19:36:03 GMT -5
My 40 is resting at the moment. I have 3 45s, 1 40 and still have an early stock 50 but only have 3 Sav 10ML Stocks/receivers. And a Handi Rifle conversion. I'll get back to it. Where are these bullets sold? Will the 16 twist adequately stabilize this bullet? I expect it will. Loads often used in 40 sabotless with the 240g bullet? Thanks. SW SW, buy them directly from CEB, your 16 twist will stabilize them just fine, N110/Varget is what I shoot them with, and they shoot lights out. I suspect I could test and find another good powder combo for them, but they are expensive and they shoot so good with the 110/Varget loads, I see no need to fool with it. I have also shot them with 4759/Varget, shoots just as good. My poly 40 is a 25 twist and it stabilized them fine, at 100 yards at least... haven't got to shoot them further from it yet. I was getting some really good groups this summer with 200 SST's and 195 Barnes using N140, RL10X and 3031 as the mains. I had a 4759/N140 load worked up with the poly and 200 SST that is just insanely accurate. |
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Post by rangeball on Nov 16, 2015 21:30:50 GMT -5
Guy, you're annealing the CEBs, right? How? And are you guys shooting them FF or Smooth sized?
I have some of the version 2 and 3s that have a secant profile and come in at 224 grains (iirc) and still at a calculated .300 BC. After your done hunting I should send you guys some to see if you can get them to shoot.
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Post by subcalshooter on Nov 16, 2015 21:55:34 GMT -5
Guy, you're annealing the CEBs, right? How? And are you guys shooting them FF or Smooth sized? I have some of the version 2 and 3s that have a secant profile and come in at 224 grains (iirc) and still at a calculated .300 BC. After your done hunting I should send you guys some to see if you can get them to shoot. Yes I anneal them with a torch until glowing red, for quite a few seconds, then immediately toss them into ice cold water. I shoot all mine FF to this point, both in the 16 twist Pacnors and the 25 twist Poly. I will be giving them a go in the Axis next spring, it's a 13 twist 400/408, so they will be knurled up land riders. I'm pretty sure Steve and Carlos have got them to shoot very well from their 400/408's once annealed. |
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Post by rangeball on Nov 16, 2015 23:01:51 GMT -5
Thanks.
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Post by eml9 on Nov 20, 2015 15:18:34 GMT -5
Good thread sw... has anyone else here tested this with the Barnes 250 tez? That's what I hunt with and have no where to test this bullet in cross wind, I shoot down a long ditch bank surrounded by woods. Only wind I get is with the shot, or against . Thanks
Eric
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Post by sw on Nov 21, 2015 19:43:36 GMT -5
Good thread sw... has anyone else here tested this with the Barnes 250 tez? That's what I hunt with and have no where to test this bullet in cross wind, I shoot down a long ditch bank surrounded by woods. Only wind I get is with the shot, or against . Thanks Eric Shooting a 45 or 50? I'd go to the Barnes web sight, download a free ballistics program and go at it. I've found the Barnes BCs to be quite accurate. I'm interested in something with solid killing power out to 300 yds with as high a BC as practical. I'm wanting something I can shoot in my existing 3 45 PacNors (1 is a 453 land to land) or 40(0.408, 16 twist) PacNor. The 240 CEB seems to maybe be the best for what I want, Wanting to not spend any more on equipment and to keep scope killing recoil down. |
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Post by eml9 on Nov 21, 2015 19:53:03 GMT -5
I have a .45 McGowen
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Post by Richard on Nov 21, 2015 19:56:08 GMT -5
Chris................No Guts No Glory! If Bob White had gotten you into bench rest shooting you wold have been forced into shooting five shot! I know what it is like when you start out with two in the same hole.............then you hold your breath when you pull the trigger on the third shot.........then the fourth.........and Dang! The fifth one goes out:( Just the nature of competitive shooting?
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Post by deadeer on Nov 21, 2015 22:37:10 GMT -5
What is the "poly" reference regarding the barrels?
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Post by rangeball on Nov 21, 2015 22:53:40 GMT -5
What is the "poly" reference regarding the barrels? Polygonal rifling. |
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Post by deadeer on Nov 22, 2015 1:11:22 GMT -5
OK, just looked it up. First for me. Something new? Reason? Cheaper, more consistent?
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