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Post by dans on Nov 13, 2015 6:39:01 GMT -5
The challenge is to build a lightweight 45 caliber stainless barreled smokeless muzzleloader with a finished weight scoped of 7 to 7.5 pounds. Barrel length can be as short as 16 inches. I have a NULA 50 caliber but want a similar weight rifle in 45 caliber with a stainless barrel. What say you builders out there? Is this possible or only a pipe dream?
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Post by bluedog on Nov 13, 2015 6:49:52 GMT -5
Sounds like a 45-70 break-action conversion. The lighter weight and shorter OAL is why I like mine.
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Post by kash913 on Nov 13, 2015 7:22:40 GMT -5
How heavy of a load do you want to shoot, how much money you want to spend it can be done
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 8:46:39 GMT -5
It can definitely be done if you want to spend the money and deal with the recoil.
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Post by edge on Nov 13, 2015 8:59:10 GMT -5
I agree a break open will get you there, my handi rifle is 7 lbs without the scope and it has a 22 inch barrel.
edge.
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Post by miketodd58 on Nov 13, 2015 10:55:56 GMT -5
The challenge is to build a lightweight 45 caliber stainless barreled smokeless muzzleloader with a finished weight scoped of 7 to 7.5 pounds. Barrel length can be as short as 16 inches. I have a NULA 50 caliber but want a similar weight rifle in 45 caliber with a stainless barrel. What say you builders out there? Is this possible or only a pipe dream? I would love to have one on the Rem ML platform but I just don't see it. Action is around 3 LBs before relief work. Might get it down to 2.5 Lbs. A carbon Fiber Stock. McMillian 1.6 lbs $600 bucks OUCH! That's 4.1 lbs right there. Then your looking at barrels. Even the lightest taper is going to come in around 3lbs. And most builders won't touch a light taper. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 11:23:12 GMT -5
Definitely has to be a Ti action, carbon barrel, mcmillan stock and scope choice will be important. It will cost a lot but if it's what you need you would likely be happy with the results.
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Post by elkman1310 on Nov 13, 2015 12:16:07 GMT -5
That would be a tall order to build a bolt action M/L. I just finished a 45cal with a Sendero taper and a shorter 24"barrel in a HS Varmint stock. The gun weighs 9.8lbs with a 4.5/14 Bushnell scope steel rings. It also has a muzzle brake. It doesn't have a ramrod.
I shot the gun yesterday. It's as accurate as the heavier models with longer barrels But the felt recoil is notably more than a heavier gun is. This is about as light as I care to go. I like a little more barrel in the shank. The Sendero is as small as I care to go.
It will be interesting what people will come up with.
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Post by miketodd58 on Nov 13, 2015 14:52:06 GMT -5
Definitely has to be a Ti action, carbon barrel, mcmillan stock and scope choice will be important. It will cost a lot but if it's what you need you would likely be happy with the results. Yeah when you start looking at those numbers the NULA starts looking really attractive at $1800. |
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Post by lwh723 on Nov 13, 2015 15:33:48 GMT -5
Definitely has to be a Ti action, carbon barrel, mcmillan stock and scope choice will be important. It will cost a lot but if it's what you need you would likely be happy with the results. Yeah when you start looking at those numbers the NULA starts looking really attractive at $1800. That's truth. Here's one I put together a few years back with a McMillan Edge Fill and a 22" Sendero contour. Ti rings and base. I think it was under 8#'s scoped. It's the lightest one I've put together. Even with 60gr of H4198 and a 200gr bullet it was pretty snappy. Honestly, I don't think I'd really want to go any lighter.  |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 13, 2015 17:47:31 GMT -5
NULA model 20 action will run you around $750 for the rimfire. The M209 was based on the model 20 rimfire action. Looks like the M209s are gone from his website now.
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Post by elknturkey on Nov 13, 2015 19:48:43 GMT -5
NULA model 20 action will run you around $750 for the rimfire. The M209 was based on the model 20 rimfire action. Looks like the M209s are gone from his website now. I've noticed that to. Dan you could do what my buddy did. Since Melvin want build a 45 call Douglas and they will supply the barrel and cut the breech plug. He got it in the same contour as the 50 so no stock work. It's slightly heavier but still light. Still working up loads for it but 1.5ish is the worst group I've gotten with different powders and bullets. I don't want to mess with my nula 50 as it shoots so dang good but I'm also in the market for a lightweight 45. Do the H&Rs come in under 7lbs with no scope? It's not uncommon for us to do 9 miles in a day and climb 2000 feet in elevation hence the need for lightweight. |
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Post by kennacl55 on Nov 13, 2015 21:07:27 GMT -5
My H&R ultra with laminated thumbhole stock, 24" barrel and 6-18 leupold weighs 8#-4oz.
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Post by olegburn on Jul 6, 2019 9:00:31 GMT -5
Reading old posts is fun!
But I want to know how the story ended.
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Post by dans on Jul 6, 2019 17:43:30 GMT -5
I went with a break action
7.75 lbs 20 in barrel 2,5x8 Leupold scope. There are builders that will so a Rem 700 bolt action and get around 8 lbs. All you have to do is throw money at it. Fiber wrapped barrel, kevlar stock, Talley ring mounts full out build can be done but $$$$.
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Post by dans on Jul 6, 2019 17:44:02 GMT -5
I went with a break action
7.75 lbs 20 in barrel 2,5x8 Leupold scope. There are builders that will so a Rem 700 bolt action and get around 8 lbs. All you have to do is throw money at it. Fiber wrapped barrel, kevlar stock, Talley ring mounts full out build can be done but $$$$.
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Post by 10ga on Jul 10, 2019 23:13:14 GMT -5
I have a great Bestill/Omega with a 27 inch Brux 45 barrel. Use the original composite stock. Gun at 6.5 lb before glass. It's only a barrel, trigger group and a stock, weight of action is miniscule. Shoots great. Currently shooting VV N120 under HSB sabot holding Pittman or Fury 225 grain X 40 cal bullet. Easy carry and handle, great balance, accurate, quick to target which I need when fall turkey hunting, and is my favorite gun to carry hunting. My opinion and experience, others will differ. 10
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Post by olegburn on Jul 13, 2019 15:13:46 GMT -5
I went with a break action 7.75 lbs 20 in barrel 2,5x8 Leupold scope. There are builders that will so a Rem 700 bolt action and get around 8 lbs. All you have to do is throw money at it. Fiber wrapped barrel, kevlar stock, Talley ring mounts full out build can be done but $$$$. Did you go with Handi Rifle platform? |
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Post by olegburn on Jul 13, 2019 15:16:47 GMT -5
I have a great Bestill/Omega with a 27 inch Brux 45 barrel. Use the original composite stock. Gun at 6.5 lb before glass. It's only a barrel, trigger group and a stock, weight of action is miniscule. Shoots great. Currently shooting VV N120 under HSB sabot holding Pittman or Fury 225 grain X 40 cal bullet. Easy carry and handle, great balance, accurate, quick to target which I need when fall turkey hunting, and is my favorite gun to carry hunting. My opinion and experience, others will differ. 10 I've been away for sometime and didn't realize the variety of platforms smokeless went on. I'll be reading trying to catch on. Would be nice seeing pictures and such |
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Post by dans on Jul 14, 2019 6:56:26 GMT -5
My lightweight .45 muzzleloader is a converted cva Hunter that started as a 45/70. I sent it off to Hollis Weber and had the barrel shortened to 20" and he fitted a 209 breech plug to convert it. With a Leupold vxIII 2.5x8 scope it is 7.75 lbs. I an currently working with saboted loads and it will shoot 1-2 inch groups at 50. I will soon switch to sabotless to try and get more accuracy.
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Post by driven2tri24 on Jul 18, 2019 11:25:54 GMT -5
Not Stainless, but I have a 16.5" 45-70 Handi Conversion that weighs 6.25#including scope and 5.5# with Red Dot. 2.5# trigger and it shoots 200XTP's sub MOA to 100yds at 1700fps w/ Bluedot. Also has 16.5" .357 Max barrel & 18.5" Winchoke 20gauge barrel fitted to same receiver.. My kids have used this gun for several deer & turkeys.
I've also used the SMZ barrel w/duplex loads at much higher velocity and same accuracy to jump bedded deer.
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Post by olegburn on Jul 20, 2019 8:43:25 GMT -5
Not Stainless, but I have a 16.5" 45-70 Handi Conversion that weighs 6.25#including scope and 5.5# with Red Dot. 2.5# trigger and it shoots 200XTP's sub MOA to 100yds at 1700fps w/ Bluedot. Also has 16.5" .357 Max barrel & 18.5" Winchoke 20gauge barrel fitted to same receiver.. My kids have used this gun for several deer & turkeys. I've also used the SMZ barrel w/duplex loads at much higher velocity and same accuracy to jump bedded deer. Care posting pictures? |
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Post by olegburn on Jul 20, 2019 8:46:12 GMT -5
Handi Rifles are pretty short to begin with due to design, but 16.5"?
I'd love to see and learn more about what's and how's!
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Post by driven2tri24 on Jul 20, 2019 9:49:32 GMT -5
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Post by olegburn on Jul 20, 2019 10:56:58 GMT -5
You talking about compact set up!
What involves in fitting barrels to different receivers? Lots of hussle?
How do you extract primers?
Does rifle receveir smaller firing pin affect the 209 primer ignition if at all?
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Post by joelmoney on Jul 22, 2019 23:59:31 GMT -5
I have been thinking of a 20” CVA Hunter with a 20” barrel. That 16.5” barrel dose sound like a great kid gun.
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Post by driven2tri24 on Jul 23, 2019 17:32:46 GMT -5
All your answers(because they are never cut and dry simple ones) can be researched on the GBO forum.: www.go2gbo.com/forums/108-h-r-centerfire-rifles.htmlFitting requires minor work sometimes, other times it requires little or nothing at all. Small FP or Large FP both work equally well for MZ's. Large FP's work well with shotguns and low pressure calibers, but in my case of .357 MAximum...I decided to fit these to a Small FP receiver due to it's pressures and potential primer ruptures. Primers can be pulled out by finger nails with one of mine and the other requires as it's a super tight fit using a decapper / deprimer like CVA sells. |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jul 24, 2019 9:25:25 GMT -5
Some old pictures of mine when Chuck owned it. It now wears a Redfield 2x7x33 so its under 8lbs currently. (11.1oz scope vs 15oz+) Im tinkering with the idea of sending it to Bestill for a Douglas 45cal 1-20 barrel. Sabot loads only in smokeless and BH209 for both sabotless/sabots. A 250gr Fury StarTipII at 2300fps-2500fps is just fine with me in a rig this light weight. The 275gr BE at over 2400fps rocks me petty good but the N110 load at 2300fps is better. ULA .50 special order heavier 26" barrel, Talley LW mounts, Leupold VX-L 3.5-10X50--8lbs... useable barrel-26.0 inches.. OAL-45.0 inches ULA .50 standard 24", Talley LW mounts, Leupold VX-III 2.5-8--7lbs...useable barrel-23.6 inches.. OAL-43.0 inches  The special order 26" was good for around 2440fps with a 275gr BE and 58gr of N120  |
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Post by mrbuck on Jul 24, 2019 17:43:03 GMT -5
Great looking rifles . I also have a NULA .50 with a Leupold 2.5-8 in the light weight Talley mounts . Shoots well . It's a keeper .
Chris
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