mj757
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Posts: 11
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Post by mj757 on Oct 8, 2015 14:56:50 GMT -5
I need help with ballistics. I am shooting the savage 10 ML with a 250 grain Hornady with the MMP Black Sabbot. I am using IMR 4227 powder . I am using 46 grains and I am cutting holes at 100 yards. Currently the gun is sighted in 3 inches high at 100 yards. I want to be able to shoot 300 yards with this gun Can you give me any suggestions on what I need to do
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Post by lwh723 on Oct 8, 2015 15:05:06 GMT -5
Hang a target at 300 and try it. It's going to be dropping a lot. You may want to move up to a 300gr bullet and H4198 if you really want to stretch it out.
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Post by mrbuck on Oct 8, 2015 16:58:56 GMT -5
I have had great groups with 300 grain XTPs , the short MMP sabot , and IMR4227 . However many shooters much more knowlegeable than I say that IMR4227 is very difficult to ignite and someday it will fail to fire . I'm sure a hot Fed. 209A primer and a breechplug that is drilled out regularly ( 25 shots ? ) and not allowed to accumulate much carbon would help . I also think extreme cold would effect ignition . Chris
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Post by Dave W on Oct 9, 2015 8:17:12 GMT -5
Like Luke said, shoot it at 300 and see what you have. Wind can wreak havoc at that distance with low BC bullets.
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Post by cowhunter on Oct 9, 2015 12:52:47 GMT -5
4227, no matter what brand, will fail you at some point. Not one of the "Mossy" members here uses it. Plus It is too hot to try for high speeds and long distance. Do as Luke says and use 75 grains of 4198 with at least 30 lbs of loading pressure. If you have ignition problems go with a duplex. Oops. Apology to mrbuck who uses it but advises that it may give you problems.
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Post by mrbuck on Oct 9, 2015 19:52:09 GMT -5
Cowhunter...no apology needed ! mrbuck has shot about 4 groups with IMR 4227 but would not trust it for hunting . When I pull the trigger on deer or bear I want to hear a very loud BANG ! Chris
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Post by dans on Oct 10, 2015 5:29:23 GMT -5
300 yards is a long poke. I suggest you get some 300 grain premium bullets and push them to 2400 f/s or so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 7:57:03 GMT -5
The 300 SST or 290 TEZ's or 300 BE's well work just fine to 300 yards. No need to buy the match hunters or AP bullets.
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Post by rossman40 on Oct 10, 2015 11:21:15 GMT -5
You need some speed to be accurate. Yes you could lob it out there that far with low velocity and a low BC bullet. BUT as the bullet slows down it gives the wind more time to effect it. Then the arc, fall or drop rate is great making range estimation critical out there past 200yds. The BPCR guys can do it, they measure their drop at 1000yds in feet. Then do you have enough umph to make a good kill. You would want more velocity to start off with and then a heavier bullet with a higher BC to retain it better to be accurate and effective.
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Post by Richard on Oct 10, 2015 11:27:28 GMT -5
I know this is not answering your question on you .50 Savage ML.................but, if you really want to poke out to 300 yards and are serious about it, save a few pennies and get a .45 replacement barrel from Luke and go sabot less..............Now you will be in the right ballpark! What you are trying to do is akin to peeing in the wind! Will it work?........yeah, maybe sometimes? Richard
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Post by rambler on Oct 10, 2015 12:34:54 GMT -5
I know this is not answering your question on you .50 Savage ML.................but, if you really want to poke out to 300 yards and are serious about it, save a few pennies and get a .45 replacement barrel from Luke and go sabot less..............Now you will be in the right ballpark! What you are trying to do is akin to peeing in the wind! Will it work?........yeah, maybe sometimes? Richard Bingo
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Post by edge on Oct 10, 2015 13:20:28 GMT -5
IMO, you will lose too much energy not much past 225 yards with that load. I used to shoot blunt pistol bullets and while very accurate at short range (under 200) the problem is the BC is just too low under most conditions to cleanly take an animal. If you want to poke and hope, that is your decision but you are low 2k fps and a bullet with a BC of about 0.21 At 300 yards you may or may not be supersonic so accuracy may be compromised. Your huge advantage is that even though the velocity is low it is well within pistol bullet velocities so you should get good expansion! The disadvantage is at low velocity penetration will be compromised by expansion so it is a double edged sword! If you are a bow hunter like I am you aim for the low heart so if you ZERO 3 3/4 inches high at 100 yards That shot gets you to 200 yards as you max zero IMO! SO, from 200 yards on out you put your crosshair on the spine and the bullet "SHOULD" impact 8 inches low at 300 yards or right into the heart again. Not ideal but you get there in theory edge. PS at 300 you will almost certainly be under 800 ft/lbs but if you put the bullet in the boiler room you will not have a huge trail to follow. If I had an intruder in my house and had 800 ft/lbs behind that bullet there would be zero hesitation !!
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mj757
Button Buck
Posts: 11
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Post by mj757 on Oct 15, 2015 10:09:03 GMT -5
The 300 SST or 290 TEZ's or 300 BE's well work just fine to 300 yards. No need to buy the match hunters or AP bullets. So you use the same powder? I hunt here in Maryland where the early season temps are not very cold. I am not worried about temps. I just want something consistent without a whole lotta work.
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Post by jeremylong on Oct 15, 2015 10:36:00 GMT -5
4198 and a .458 diameter bullet for that .50 will get you were you want to be easier. 300 Barnes original, 325 FTX, 310 APB are a few.
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Deleted
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Ballistics
Oct 15, 2015 10:54:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2015 10:54:24 GMT -5
I shoot the 300's in a 45 without the sabots. I use a duplex so I wouldn't be able to get you a load however there are others here that should be able to help. The match hunters and APB bullets I don't believe they were designed to work in a sabot. Doesn't mean they won't just that I think if you ordered a 45 barrel from Luke you'd be better off. Are there regulations on whether or not you can use a 45 cal barrel. The savages are very easy to change out the barrel and I'm sure Luke could walk you through the process. If money is the issue he might have a McGowen that will fit your rifle and it would be the cheapest barrel to get a 45 and they shoot pretty darn good.
I'd call Luke ask him his opinion and I'm sure when your done you'll know exactly what to do.
Sorry I couldn't be more help.
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mj757
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Posts: 11
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Post by mj757 on Oct 16, 2015 17:30:15 GMT -5
The 300 SST or 290 TEZ's or 300 BE's well work just fine to 300 yards. No need to buy the match hunters or AP bullets. So what load do you use and how high are u sighted in at 100? Thx
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Deleted
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Ballistics
Oct 16, 2015 17:58:54 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 17:58:54 GMT -5
The 300 SST or 290 TEZ's or 300 BE's well work just fine to 300 yards. No need to buy the match hunters or AP bullets. So what load do you use and how high are u sighted in at 100? Thx I shoot a McRem 45 cal 300 SST smoothed sized with wool wad 10/70 green dot/3031. Sighted in @ 200 yards around 2" high at 100 yards running around 2900 fps. I use a savage plug with a .o4o bushing. That was my best load for groups at 100 yards. I quit shooting that load because I didn't want to shoot that hot. Next time I go out I'm going to drop main charge down to 60 grains of 3031 goal is to be around 2650-2700 fps. However if I read your post right your shooting a 50 cal, if u are I wouldn't recommend shooting my load in your gun. You should still be able to shoot 300 grain bullets in your rifle out to 300 yards well enough to kill deer but you'll need to practice. There should be some load data for a 50 cal in the load data area. To to find one that you can use, would be my best suggestion. Other than getting a 45 call barrel for your gun.
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mj757
Button Buck
Posts: 11
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Post by mj757 on Oct 24, 2015 6:54:37 GMT -5
What bullet is the best for whitetail? I shot a doe in the shoulder. Clipped the heart and it ran 100 yards. Using the Hornady 250 xtp. They r accurate but do not have the Knock down in my opinion. Several people have the same problem with this bullet.
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Post by edge on Oct 24, 2015 7:16:56 GMT -5
The only guaranteed knockdown shot is a CNS ( central nervous system ) hit! Stop the heart and you may get a bang flop or you may get a death run, it is the luck of the draw...IMO edge.
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Post by jims on Oct 24, 2015 8:08:44 GMT -5
Many swear by and not at the XTP. They have taken a good deal of game over the years.
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Post by edge on Oct 24, 2015 13:03:09 GMT -5
IMO, you have a high end pistol load!
Distance is your enemy as far as expansion is concerned. I shot the 250 XTP at around 2600 fps and at 200 yds it punches a nice hole ...some expansion but it penetrates like crazy! If you are using low end loads the XTP is top notch in my book.
edge.
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Post by al53 on Oct 24, 2015 13:13:57 GMT -5
Many swear by and not at the XTP. They have taken a good deal of game over the years. when the rifled muzzleloader craze began ..using sabots in .50 and .45 cal muzzies..the bullet that was first used for the sabot combo was the XTP..then the other bullets began to show up...besides the round ball and conical era i think maybe the XTP may fall in second place for deer kills...
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