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Post by dernhumpus on Sept 23, 2015 21:12:32 GMT -5
I have hunted a couple of seasons with my savage ML2 and have done well with it. However, I have never appreciated its performance on paper. The best groups I have gotten using both H4198 an Reloader7 were around 3 inches.
I have since purchased the double saboted 195 double duplex bullets.
What is my max load on these? I assume I can still shoot 70+ gr of H4198. Is this powder ideal?
I know there have been similar threads on this in the past, but I couldnt bring it all together.
THanks for the help!
Dan
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Post by smokelessindian84 on Sept 23, 2015 22:53:16 GMT -5
I think you will find there is too much plastic involved between the bullet and the bore with those double saboted 195 gr. PR dead center duplexes. You will have to back your powder charge way off from what your talking about using. I think someone posted on here about using AA2015 powder with them if I'm not mistaken. I have personally shot them with 40.0 gr. of N110 and AA5744. They didn't leave much of a blood trail from my experience with them. Have you tried the .458 300 gr. Barnes original bullets in your .50 ?
If you want serious performance out of your Savage ML2 then save your frogskins up for an aftermarket .45 barrel. And don't look back!
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Post by rangeball on Sept 24, 2015 8:54:49 GMT -5
I assume you've gone through all the recommended checks for a stock savage?
What kinds of loads have you tried that gave you the 3" groups? I bet if you posted complete info you would get input that could help it shoot much better.
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Post by 10ga on Sept 24, 2015 13:58:14 GMT -5
70 gr of 4198 and a thick double sabot with a 35 cal bullet in a 50 bore. Not working. For those double sabot loads etc that PR has you need go back to smoker loads. If you are going to shoot smokeless in your 50 MLII go to .458 cal X 300 gr bullets and BCR or Orange sabots and a bit more modest loading. Both my 50 shoot best with the .458 X 300 gr bullets. JMHO, 10 ga
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Post by dernhumpus on Sept 24, 2015 17:10:39 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't even mention the bullet I was trying at first. It was the Parker 300 MH. I tried varying charges, 60-67gr of Reloder 7 and up to 70gr of H4198.
Who makes the best .45 barrel, and it is a direct replacement?
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Post by Richard on Sept 24, 2015 18:34:57 GMT -5
Check with Luke at "Arrowhead Supply" whose add is on this site. He will hook you up with a quality barrel and yes, it is a direct replacement. Currently, Brux probably heads the list but good results have also been gotten with McGowan and Pac-Nor which Luke generally stocks. If you have a barrel wrench and a barrel vise, you can do it yourself. There is a tutorial on this site. If you have questions or need someone to do the work, send me a PM and I will give you my phone number. Richard
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Post by dernhumpus on Sept 24, 2015 19:02:32 GMT -5
I don't have a barrel wrench/vise, but I am invested with Savage stuff so I would probably buy them.
What is the preferred bullet/sabot once you go down to .45cal? What I have minus the 50-45cal sabot?
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Post by Dave W on Sept 25, 2015 8:05:37 GMT -5
Harvester light blue sabots with a 40 cal 200gr XTP, SST, or 195 Barnes are the usual suspects for .45 saboted shooting.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 25, 2015 8:55:19 GMT -5
But if you are going full hog you should also have a smooth or FF die made from a drop from your new barrel then you have precision sabotless available as an option as well.
I assume from your choice of the MH and the duplex sabot sub caliber PR bullet (which I think he gives a ridiculously high BC estimate for) you are looking to extend your range? What is your ultimate range goal? What do you want the rifle and load to be able to do for you?
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Post by dernhumpus on Sept 25, 2015 17:24:17 GMT -5
I shot a couple of deer over 300 yards last year with the combo, one at 340yards. Although it has performed well on deer at extended range, I feel like I am pushing my limit of 3" groups a bit too far. I also put my action in a HS precision stock off of my Savage 12LRP and it did not help accuracy.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 25, 2015 17:48:20 GMT -5
How far out were your 3" groups?
If you want long range and are not opposed to a custom .45 barrel sabotless with the match hunters or lukes APB is where its at, and an adjustable die is pretty much mandatory.
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Post by dernhumpus on Sept 26, 2015 9:36:57 GMT -5
I take it the sabotless gains a lot of accuracy over a .50 cal and a sabot?
What die is preferred?
3" groups at 100 yards is what I have been seeing.
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Post by Dave W on Sept 27, 2015 7:36:31 GMT -5
A custom barrel could and should make a drastic improvement over a 3 MOA gun. Full form or smooth sizing, either works well. Swinglock or Luke can set you up with either or both dies.
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Post by cowhunter on Sept 27, 2015 13:00:04 GMT -5
Forget the Dead Center loads for smokeless high speeds. +1 with the guys saying to use .458 300 gr with orange sabots. OR. If you switch to .45 take a hard look at what Drop did in the post just above yours. Use either a Brux or Krieger barrel. Especially Brux if you switch barrels. Get from Luke.
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Post by dernhumpus on Sept 27, 2015 21:14:45 GMT -5
What is the orange sabot? I have enough firearm projects going on right now to do a barrel change. Is this suggesting a different sabot with my current bullet?
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oked
8 Pointer
Posts: 206
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Post by oked on Sept 27, 2015 21:24:42 GMT -5
In my opinion u need to go to a copper jacket or all copper bullet .lead bullets don't do well at speeds above 2100 fps in my experience. Have a gun built by Cecil epp of prbullet and have tried his bullets and the do well at regular muzzle loader velocity but when u go faster the don't work.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 28, 2015 9:38:05 GMT -5
What is the orange sabot? I have enough firearm projects going on right now to do a barrel change. Is this suggesting a different sabot with my current bullet? The Orange Sabot being recommended is made by MMP for .458 bullets in a .50. You would only want to use this sabot if you were going to also change to a .458 bullet as loading pressure would be too loose with a .451-2 bullet. How is the loading pressure with your current 300 MH load? Low, low/medium, medium, medium hard or hard? With sabots generally medium to medium hard produces best results. Have you tried different sabots to adjust barrel fit and loading pressure? MMP HP24 (thinner), MMP HP12 (thicker) and the Harvester red crush rib (thickest)? A simple sabot change may tighten things up. You can also try lightly knurling your bullets so the grip the sabot better to improve rifling spin transfer. If your current load is hard to seat with these three sabots, you can try the harvester black crush rib, or possibly the orange MMP but I suspect it would still be too loose, but who knows.
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Post by dernhumpus on Oct 25, 2015 13:33:59 GMT -5
Well I have too many current projects to rebarrel for this season, and am out of Parker MH, so I am going to order some APBs as suggested. Current loading medium-hard. I tried the harvester black and barely ignited the powder, it almost dropped down the barrel. Is this because I used it with the .451 MH? What would be a recommended starting sabot be for the 310gr APBs?
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Post by Dave W on Oct 26, 2015 6:41:16 GMT -5
The MH probably should have been better suited if matched with a MMP HPH 12 or Red Crush Rib Harvester. I would try the Harvester Black Crush Rib sabot with the 310 APB.
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