I may be in the wrong forum....

[Harley]

This is my first look at the handgun forum, so I don't know what goes, here. I hope somebody can reply to this.

I am hunting deer with a single-shot, break-open T/C G2 pistol in 30-30 caliber, and have always assumed this was a maximum 150 yard cartridge, using a 130 gn bullet at 2250 MV.

Tonight, I ran a hypothetical ballistics program with a 150 gn bullet at 2300 MV. Theoretically, this would be a 300 yard load, given a decent trajectory and almost 1000 ft. lbs. of terminal energy at 300 yards.

My question: Why is the 30-30 not "rated" for this longer distance? Is it because it is usually associated with less accurate firearms, such as the lever action? Or, is there something else?

Thanks for reading.

Harley

[boarhog]

Harley,
IMO, there are several factors that come into play for the old opinion that the 30-30 is a 150 yd cartridge. Other than case capacity, probably the main limiting factor was the poor areodynamics of the flat nosed 150 and 170 gr bullets used for safety when loaded in tubular magazines. The Hornady 160 gr Flex Tip has eliminated the need to use low BC bullets in lever rifles.
In your SS pistol, you never were limited to those bullets, but you already knew that. I would suggest using your ballistics program to compare trajectory and terminal energy levels for several Low-Drag style bullets, such as the Barnes TSX130, 140, 150, and the Hornady 130-150 sst. When you compare, you may find that a heavier bullet, even though started at a lower MV, may be a better choice out to 300 yds. I have some loads with the Horn. 160 gr FTX loaded to try in my Mossberg 30-30. I have no doubt that a well placed hit with enough velocity to cause the bullet to expand will do the job on deer out to 300 yds.

[wilmsmeyer]

Harley,

You ought to get about the same drops as your 2300 fps ML loads.

I'm not a big believer in the 1000 lb energy rule but just an FYI to those that are: a 130 gr bullet going 2300 fps and a .36 BC is right at, or slightly under 1000 lb at 200 yds. At 300 it's under 800 lb. If you hit them in the right spot, it should be plenty.

A dead on sight-in at 200 yds means 3 inches high at 100 and 13 low (backline) at 300.

I agree!

[mike3132]

Actually most use 800 fpe as the least energy to humanely kill a whitetail deer. mike

[Harley]

Thank you, guys, for the input. I've been on the computer non-stop all day, trying to learn what I can. Here's where I (think) I am:

1.) The Nosler 150 gn Ballistic Tip (#30150) will expand adequately at velocities between 1600 - 3000 fps. This is roughly 200 fps less than most long range bullets require. (An incidental advantage is that I already have them on hand, since they are part of my 300 Win. Mag. load.)

2.) 35.0 gns IMR 3031 will push that bullet to 2375 fps MV in a 14" barrel. The Maximum Point Blank Range (MPBR) = ~ 230 yds; with either a slight hold-over or a BDC reticle, I'd have no problem at 300.

3.) Both the "Lethal Factor" and "Taylor Index" indicate the 300 yd terminal performance of this load is more than adequate for whitetail deer.

I was lucky enough, today, to find ONE pound of IMR 3031 in the entire city of Atlanta.

I'll back off the above load (given to me by a competition shooter in N.C.) by 10%, then shoot four groups, increasing each group by one grain, until either the velocity fails to increase, or extraction is "sticky".

Finally, using that charge obtained in the last test, I'll vary the OAL until I have my best group.

As a final, compulsive step, I may or may not drop one grain from the load that has the highest MV. Sometimes the fastest is not the most accurate.

I don't have a great deal of experience in developing pistol loads. What do you think of my component choices and plan?

Harley

[boarhog]

Harley,
I tried 3031 in a friends 30-30 TC Pistol and in my Mossberg 464. I get more speed and accuracy with H-335. I noticed that my old Lyman manual shows the best speed and accuracy with Re-12. Almost 2500 fps in a 20" barrel. Unfortunately, R-12 has been discontinued for some unknown reason.

Your choice of the Nosler BT should prove to be a wise one. I am confident it will expand reliably out as far as you feel comfortable taking a shot at a deer. I have some Hornady factory 30-30 loads with the 160 gr FTX bullet, as well as, a box of the same to handload. Hornady claims this bullet to make the 30-30 a solid 250-300 yd cartridge.

I look forward to our comparing notes next season.
Boarhog

[Harley]

Okay, it's done, I've finished my load development for the 30-30 G2 pistol. I also replaced my excellent Bushnell 3200 scope with the more powerful Burris 3-12X32 with the Ballistic Plex reticle. I also have a new, custom made-for-my-hand grip and forearm and the Harris Benchrest bipod.

My final load is 35.0 gns IMR 3031, CCI 200 primer and the Nosler 150 gn Ballistic Tip bullet. My best grouping comes from seating the bullet .015" off the lands. MV is about 2150 fps. (In my first post on this thread, I said the MV should be 2375; I took that from a ballistic page sent to me by a shooter in MN. On a second look, I saw that this velocity was obtained in a rifle, and that the data was about 20 years old.) Anyway, it is 2150 in my pistol.

This past week I shot extensively from 100-300 yards. Using the Ballistic Plex reticle, I was able, more often than not, to hit a three inch circle at all ranges through 300 yards. The pre-figured drop compensations are designed to work only at 12X, but I figure 10X will be more useful in low light, so I shot at both 12X and 10X at every 25 yards up to 300, actually sitting in my hunting tripod. Once I make up range cards for each of the magnifications, I'll be all set.

One other note: I fired the round into wet newsprint at 120 yards, using a reduced load to simulate a 300 yard impact. The Nosler expanded 50% (that's good), but retained only 50% of its original weight (that's not so good); in each of the two shots, I found that the jacket had completely separated from the core. I think I'll just have to shoot a deer at distance to find out what will happen in the real world.

Harley

[illinihunter]

It sounds to me like you have got it settled in quite well. As far as hunting goes you should be good to go 300 yds. as long as you can find a rest that is steady enough to take the long shot. I am sure that you will try to get your quarry as close as possible to put the odds more in your favor, but at least you know your limitations well in advance of the hunt. It is the guys that start to practice 1 week before the season starts that end up trying to guess what the load /gun can do.
It is not enough to read the charts and then assume that your setup will match up to the ballistic tables, and then wonder how that big buck got away. You just have to know your gun and know it well, to be able to use it to its potential. Each gun and load is different.
I just wish all of the "hunters" that come out of the woodwork during firearm season would realize that. Too many of them have read too many magazine articles that tell them how much drop to expect at a given distance and then expect it to hold true in the field. It just does not work that way.
Kudos to you for doing your homework in advance! Nice work.

[Harley]

Thanks, Illinihunter,

For a rock steady rest in my tripod I bought a length of 2x12 lumber, then cut it to fit across the shooting rails of the tripod. With the bipod mounted on the pistol and a rabbit-eared sandbag under the butt, I'm as solid as I would be on a tabled benchrest.

I'll tell you, this, though: climbing down from the tripod after every shot, walking across plowed ground to the target to mark it, then walking back and climbing into the tripod, all for a solid six hours at 97* ---- is WORK! It's worth it, though, for the knowledge and confidence.

Harley

[Harley]

I don't think I've been back to the handgun forum since I last posted on my own thread and just want to sum up last season's handgun hunting results after all the above work.

I sat on my tripod for several hunting periods, passing up shots at deer each time. At the far end of the field is a narrow neck leading to a small food plot that is from 300-341 yards from my tripod, and that's where I intended to shoot.

Finally, late in the evening a fully grown doe began to feed at the far end of the plot; my heart was beating so fast I doubted I could hold alignment on her, but set up the pistol, took my grip and got behind the scope. All I could see was a "white-out" at 12X, so I turned the power down all the way to 3x and still saw nothing but the flare. I sat there until full dark, just not believing that happened.

That was the end of the handgun season for me. I sent the scope to Burris and they said that nothing was wrong with it; for some reason the flare did appear to be gone, but a second problem appeared: the horizontal arms on the sub-cross hairs could not be seen in low light. I was disgusted enough that I just put the whole outfit in the safe and tried to forget about it.

A few weeks ago I contacted Burris to ask if anything could be done about the cross hairs; they said no, but they had determined that some of the handgun scopes had eyepieces that had not been anodized; that could cause a lack of low light clarity, so I sent the scope in. I'm waiting for its return.

If the scope is still inadequate, I'm sunk. There's nothing else on the market that I know about that will mount on a handgun and give the 10-12X I need plus the ranging reticle.

I'll post a follow-up after I receive the scope; should be here the end of next week.

Harley