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Post by azhunter on Jul 30, 2015 1:48:49 GMT -5
I will be taking the time to give a quick run down of the three muzzleloaders. One is the Bad Bull (BB), the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader (RUML), and the Ultimate Firearms (UF) Ultimate. It's difficult to buy one, let alone all three muzzleloaders. The Bad Bull is $4500, the UF is about $2500, the RUML is $800. You will be surprised by which one I recommend. I was not given any product and these were bought with my own money. These are my own opinions and nothing more.
The Bad Bull is wayyyyyyy too expensive for what it is. It also has some really weird nuances for loading and unloading. It does hit velocities of 3100fps+ but my muzzleloader was extremely inaccurate (can't hit a SR1 target consistently at 100 yards accuracy) at those speeds. That's horrible.... I'm not talking bullseye either! Also, the breach plug began to gas cut really bad. I have pics. So much so, I sent it back to Bad Bull. After six months, the barrel was not replaced to address the accuracy issues but they did replace the breach plug.
Side Note: The fit and finish are good. It is built on a modified Remington 700 action and bolt. It does come with a Boyd's laminate stock and an aluminum bedding block. That's a nice feature but for $4500? That's your call. Second, the BB has a reloading protocol that's ridiculous. You must follow it to the "T". Something just doesn't seem right with this muzzleloader... So much so, I'm tearing it down to built something else. That's how bad it is. That's saying nothing about the excessive blast and recoil the 140 grains of SMOKELESS powder. To put this in perspective, my .260 Remington uses 42 grains of IMR4350........... My .338 Lapua is only 90.0gr of H1000 pushing a 300 grain Berger VLD! Save yourself a pile of money and read on.
Next, the UF is a great muzzleloader. It's fit and finish are very good. You can order it with a muzzle brake. Take my word on it, just order it with the brake. Otherwise, you will be sending it back afterwards to have it added. The barrel is top notch and what also appears to be a Boyd's laminate stock but there is no aluminum bedding block. Personally, I never had any problems with the breech plug and I did shoot BH209. In fact, I shot a deer at 387 yards in 2012 and one in 2013 at 465 yards. Both were one shot kills. It should be noted, BH209 is not recommended by UF.
Last, the RUML. It's fit and finish are not quite as good as the UF but still good. The barrels on both of my RUML's are great. I have one in laminate and one with the Bell and Carlson. They are both fantastic weapons. The RUML has better brass and the breach plug is better. Also, the Remington Accutip muzzleloader bullets are awesome and the sabots are better.... The sabots hold up very, very good to large charges that make others sabots fail. Hey Remington, sell the sabots by themselves.... You could make a pile of money.......... They are that good!
The UF and RUML both use a metallic case that holds the primer. It inserts just like a cartridge. Want to deprime the weapon for transport, no problem. All you do is open the bolt and remove brass which holds the primer. It's that simple. It's what most people would be accustomed to with a normal centerfire (minus the front stuffing of the powder and bullet).
That's not the case with the BB. You have to have a tool and a handle to remove the second stage of the breach plug while it's loaded (unless you fired the muzzleloader). Basic firearm handling requires one to make sure the firearm is unloaded before working on it. I was taught that as a kid when handling my grandfathers .22lr single shot bolt action. It sure is odd to be fooling around with a loaded weapon trying to remove the live primer. Yeah, I know, that how most muzzleloaders are deprimed but most primers are not press fit into the action either. To me, it just doesn't feel right.
Now, the RUML and the UF will get most shooters to 700 yards if you do your part. Ballisitically speaking, Bad Bull would get you farther than that. That's if you disregard the loading procedure, the tools required to load and unload the muzzleloader. That being said, many or most people cannot make a 700 yard shot with a centerfire rifle. It is considerably harder with a muzzleloader. I don't know that I would take the shot unless the conditions were PERFECT.
Take this for what it's worth, buy the RUML and don't look back. Use the extra money you save and put a great scope on the muzzleloader (if possible). The scope should have easily adjustable turrets. The Leupold Mark 4, 4.5-14x50 is a good option (with Remington Accutips). I have mine outfitted with a Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 (275gr Parker Match Hunters) and the other one with the aforementioned Leupold and Accutips. Then stock up on powder and bullets and have fun! After all, that's what it's about. Play with your loads and bullet combos for your situation and comfort level. This is not a case of you pay for what you get. The Remington is a great deal by any measure.
By the way, Parker muzzleloader bullets are fantastic. The 275gr and 300gr Match Hunter bullets are great. I think the BC (on the box) is a little high but verify in your specific muzzleloader. |
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Post by rambler on Jul 30, 2015 7:38:33 GMT -5
Does the UF and RUML use smokeless powders?
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Post by squeeze on Jul 30, 2015 9:06:12 GMT -5
no
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 9:09:23 GMT -5
What's your opinion on the overall quality/feel of the gun?
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Post by azhunter on Aug 1, 2015 21:07:23 GMT -5
The overall feel of RUML is fine. I do prefer the feel of the B&C stock but prefer the look of the laminate. Frankly, you can't go wrong with either.
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Post by chyhunting on Apr 1, 2016 12:13:03 GMT -5
Good read... I just recently purchased the Remington UML. I am trying to find the right load for good long distance groups... How far have you gotten your UML to perform consistently? Can I ask the powder , amount and bullet you are using? I am getting good results (for me) at 300 yds. 4"inch groups, using 140 gr of blackhorn 209 and the Remington sabots and accutips. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I'm new to "long distance" muzzleloading and have a lot of fun with it... Thankyou very much for your time..
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Post by ourway77 on Apr 3, 2016 9:08:36 GMT -5
Really a fine write up, You have made my mind up on the RUML I heard some bad comments in the past and have been undecided whether to make the leap. You are to be commended for the test of the three rifles especially at your own expense. Thanks Lou
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Post by azhunter on Apr 8, 2016 23:37:21 GMT -5
Good read... I just recently purchased the Remington UML. I am trying to find the right load for good long distance groups... How far have you gotten your UML to perform consistently? Can I ask the powder , amount and bullet you are using? I am getting good results (for me) at 300 yds. 4"inch groups, using 140 gr of blackhorn 209 and the Remington sabots and accutips. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I'm new to "long distance" muzzleloading and have a lot of fun with it... Thankyou very much for your time.. . The Accutip bullets will limit your shot on big game. I would say 300 yards is likely the maximum effective range. That doesn't mean it will not get out further but you lose too much energy getting there. I would limit my shot to 300 on an elk and 400 on a deer with the Accutips. By the way, a 4" group at 300 is fantastic. |
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Post by elktaker on Apr 26, 2016 22:19:03 GMT -5
All three seem like a waste for anyone with any mechanical skills.
My savage sml build cost
200 for donor action
700 for 28" barrel with brake, bolt face, breech plug etc
130 Boyd's thumbhole
just over $1000 and goal was for bh209 use (I can use smokeless where legal for hunting). Even using an Savage Axis as donor I have a sub moa gun out to 420 yds so far (and still has 1800 ft-lb of energy). It is too easy to get a barrel and through it on a savage than to buy one of these guns.
For 2500, I could throw it in a chassis and top it with a nightforce.
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Post by elktaker on Apr 26, 2016 22:21:56 GMT -5
For the Remington, I have only been able to burn 95gr by weight of BH209 fully in my 28" barrel so there is a point when more powder does not do anything and I think it surpasses that.
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Post by encore50a on Apr 27, 2016 6:32:54 GMT -5
All three seem like a waste for anyone with any mechanical skills. My savage sml build cost 200 for donor action 700 for 28" barrel with brake, bolt face, breech plug etc 130 Boyd's thumbhole just over $1000 and goal was for bh209 use (I can use smokeless where legal for hunting). Even using an Savage Axis as donor I have a sub moa gun out to 420 yds so far (and still has 1800 ft-lb of energy). It is too easy to get a barrel and through it on a savage than to buy one of these guns. For 2500, I could throw it in a chassis and top it with a nightforce. For the extended season hunter, the majority of muzzleloader shooters, building their own rifle isn't practical. Quite evident by the numbers of shrink wrapped rifles being sold. For those extended season hunters, the RU will give them more extended range at a reasonable price, with good accuracy, if they put in the effort. As for the BP Xpress, yes it is more expensive, but, they can be extremely accurate long range shooters. |
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Post by ourway77 on Apr 29, 2016 3:37:01 GMT -5
I re-read the post I wonder who makes those sabots for Remington there not too many companies that make sabots and I really don't think Remington makes their own?
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Post by gar on Apr 29, 2016 10:50:49 GMT -5
MMP sabots proprietary for Remington only.
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Post by ourway77 on Jul 16, 2016 4:10:07 GMT -5
Well finally got my RUML Has anyone tried different sabots and bullets trying to match the Remington sabots?
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Post by encore50a on Jul 17, 2016 10:38:23 GMT -5
Well finally got my RUML Has anyone tried different sabots and bullets trying to match the Remington sabots? Harvester H5045LB and the .452" 300gr SST. |
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Post by azhunter on Jul 24, 2016 10:37:21 GMT -5
I have tried many combinations. My personal opinion for most muzzleloader shooters, stick with the Remington Accu-Tip and the supplied green sabot. They are remarkably accurate in both of my RUML's. They are fantastic for anything less than about 400 yards.
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Post by ourway77 on Jul 27, 2016 5:54:39 GMT -5
Sir thanks for the great write up. I am not a fan of pellets I have always shot loose powder just my preference what would be the Maximum loose powder charge for Remington supplied bullets BH-209 0r 777? Every where I try it seem the Remington bullets are not available any suggestions who might have them.
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Post by schunter on Jul 27, 2016 7:41:54 GMT -5
I have a pack I will sell if you want them.
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Post by ourway77 on Jul 27, 2016 15:15:11 GMT -5
Schunter sent PM
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Post by nyhunter on Aug 17, 2016 17:33:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the write up, very in depth and interesting article.
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