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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 30, 2015 17:22:53 GMT -5
I am getting my dies back to make the Low Drag .458 bullets at 400gn for the guys who want to stretch the guns out. I am getting a second set of dies for bullets around 300gn and the die maker is suggesting a "heeled" bullet. He used to be big into muzzleloaders and made sidelock match rifles with false muzzles. He says false muzzles are never perfect (I know we don't use them but he sees the funnels we use as similar) and thinks a heel is a good way to go but will go with whatever I choose. Cast your vote for flat or heeled, you have two weeks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 18:25:37 GMT -5
Maybe I'm confusing myself but I wonder if the heel would give you a false sense of having your f'd bullet lined up and end up trying to ram it down out of time with the lands. I wouldnt take a gamble just for ease of loading.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 18:48:01 GMT -5
Keith, What would you consider the OPTIMUM twist to stabilize one of your 400gr bullets? What is the bullet length?
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jun 30, 2015 20:42:52 GMT -5
Kyle,
When I started this project I calculated everything out to be fully stable in a 1-24" so that they can be shot from a stock Savage. A 1-24 gives an Sg of around 1.8 (average)and a 1-18 gives an Sg of 3.5 so I would say optimum is probably 1-22 at SML velocity and 1-20 or faster in a sub gun. There are some longer jackets available that I may try to go heavier with just to see how far we can push these guns and I have a 1-18 barrel for that since those bullets will be another 1/3" longer (400gn bullet is currently 1.235" long) and sometimes a faster pitch can help with transonic stability.
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Post by 10ga on Jul 1, 2015 9:17:40 GMT -5
I vote flat base. Then I can use them in sabots in my stock 50s and sabotless in my 45s. And 400 grners? -- Reminds me of WAY back when I shot 405 and 444 gr belted bullets in the smokers and my White. 10
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Post by edge on Jul 1, 2015 10:13:49 GMT -5
Is the bullet makers suggestion to make the heeled section as a bore rider ( 0.458 x 0.450 ) ?
edge.
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Post by elkman1310 on Jul 1, 2015 10:22:15 GMT -5
The heavier you make your bullet in a attempt to increase B.C. always comes with a trade off of reduced velocity and increased recoil.
A all copper jacket and lead core bullet will not have as good of a B.C. as what Bob Parker has tried to achieve with the use of a alloy tip.
Using several different Ballistic programs I settled on the 270 E-Max bullet for ranges out to 600 yards. This bullet will expand at a velocity where the Match Hunters with the .028 probably will not. I say probably because Bob wants you to hit bone with these bullets. A deer with two 1/2 holes through its lungs is not going to live long anyway.
If I wanted to shoot just paper out to 1000 yards I would try the 325gr MH. I have had several conversations with Bob Parker about trying to shoot out to 1000 Yrds. He felt the 270gr E-Max would not be accurate at that range. He is probably right But I think the 325gr might be worth a try if my 45cal with the Douglas barrel. This gun is set up just like a 17lb bench rest rifle.
I wish you the best on making bullets most people don't realize how hard it is to make a quality bullet.
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Post by rangeball on Jul 1, 2015 10:29:11 GMT -5
A deer with two 1/2 holes through its lungs is not going to live long anyway. I agree but in my experience they sure can run a long way and leave little blood before finally dropping.
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Post by jims on Jul 1, 2015 11:45:36 GMT -5
I prefer a flat base.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jul 1, 2015 19:33:50 GMT -5
Elkman,
I'm tracking these bullets will not match the BC of a similarly profiled bullet with tip. The reason that they have to be 400gn (or there about) is that with the long radius ogive if they are not of sufficient weight the jacket folds ahead of the core. The advantage of this bullet over the Parker is that it still offers most of the characteristics we want but at at a significant savings: about like shoot 4 get the 5th for free. I am having another die made to make a lighter 300-330gn (original goal) for the shorter range crowd.
Edge,
That is his suggestion but I think it would need to be smaller since most of these bullets will be sized down to .451 as most guys here seem to shoot SF vs FF in the .45 SML. I personally don't know that a heel is needed or wanted; I personally don't have issues starting SF bullets or FF bullets in my guns even through the brakes.
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Post by 10ga on Jul 2, 2015 10:55:16 GMT -5
7mmfreak,
Possible to have some in August at "The Shoot"? if you be there?
Also I'm guessing these are "swaged" bullets? Any possibility to trade some PB for bullets? I've got about 3500 lb of various lead, about half in muffin/cast boolit ingots, anything from pure in 50 and 5 lb ingots to COWW, sheet lead, battery cable ends, etc...?? PM if interested. 10 ga
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jul 2, 2015 15:31:50 GMT -5
10ga, I would really like to have bullets for the shoot. I think it is doable if I get my dies back in the next few weeks. I intended to have bullets (I was going to donate one box per shooter) the for the spring shoot and when I was pointing the bullets for the spring shoot is when I had a bullet get stuck in the die and had to send it back only to find out the dies had to be reworked. I won't be at the shoot, I will be at Aberdeen Proving Grounds for the entire month of August, but I could probably get Rob and Danny to haul them up if I can get them done. The offered last time. Yes, they are cup and core bullets that are swaged like any other (ie Sierra, Berger, Hornady, JLK, etc). There is a Mashing Metalthread here that shows the whole process from start to finish.
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