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Post by superkirby on Jun 30, 2015 10:40:20 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with a smooth form die. My MGM/Shilen barrel seems to be on the small side, as neither the Parkers or Barnes will start down. How much sizing does a smooth die offer? What bullet options do I have? Will any .451-.452 bullet be able to be sized down enough? Do I need to lube the bullets before sizing and with what? It looks like I will need some wads, veggie wads being recommended due to smell. I saw the other day someone said they used a single drop of super glue to stick the wad to the bullet? Does this work ok? Seems like it would be easy to spend an hour sizing a whole bunch of bullets and put one of the kids to work with super glue.
Thanks for the help. Vince
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Post by rangeball on Jun 30, 2015 10:52:07 GMT -5
How much sizing does a smooth die offer? What bullet options do I have? Will any .451-.452 bullet be able to be sized down enough? Do I need to lube the bullets before sizing and with what? Thanks for the help. Vince I assume you mean an adjustable smooth sizing die, as that is really what you need to take the most advantage of what sabotless has to offer, especialy if you will be using more than one bullet size. As for bullets, any that are in the .450-.452 class, ie SSTs, XTPs, Barnes, Parkers, etc. Lots of bullet choices here. You may not "need" lube but will find lube makes it easier, and I use the stick lube that Tom Post recommends, but there are others that work just as well. As for the wads, I've seen success posted with almost every type. From my understanding with the super glue it's just a tiny tiny drop in the center so the wad can leave the bullet when it exits the barrel, so I'd be wary of letting kids do it. If I was going to be doing a bunch in bulk I'd also want to make sure my testing was done and I had the proper size determined.
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Post by superkirby on Jun 30, 2015 10:59:42 GMT -5
Yes, should have specified the swinglock adjustable smooth die from Luke. To start I'm wanting to shoot probably just XTPs and SSTs, maybe some Barnes for deer. Part of my concern was that it will go small enough, but doesn't sound like it will be a problem.
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Post by jims on Jun 30, 2015 11:33:37 GMT -5
Personally I have never really seen the value of gluing on a wad. In my opinion one tries to reduce the variables and I feel that adds to it, some may stay on, some not, weight variations then, some potentially may half come off and flutter. The veggie wads are not hard to start and seem to provide a bit of seal and still let accurate shooting occur. You could try it both with the glue and not. Unless the glued variety offered more accuracy or ease of loading it would just be easier without but your testing will give you the answer in your firearm.
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Post by superkirby on Jun 30, 2015 11:44:42 GMT -5
I guess gluing would be the least of my concerns. Just trying to streamline the process from sizing to loading.
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Post by schunter on Jun 30, 2015 11:54:31 GMT -5
Do you guys really think a glued on wad is still on the back of a bullet when it exits the barrel? I would think it would be toast long before that.
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Post by superkirby on Jun 30, 2015 12:55:13 GMT -5
I tend to think it would be. I just may have to test once i get set up. Might be a next summer project before i get that far.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 18:02:56 GMT -5
Do you guys really think a glued on wad is still on the back of a bullet when it exits the barrel? I would think it would be toast long before that. I know it for a fact a glued wool wad will stay on 40cal bullets as accuracy was horrible. Its just as easy to drop the wool wad thru the brake and start it with a short starter or powder funnel then put the bullet in and sent them home together. As far a the smell of wool wads.... You only get a whiff of it if the breeze is blowing back at you. I've had people at the range comment on the smell of burnt 10x after firing but never the smell of a burnt wool wad. The issue of using a wool wad is not one that should be of a concern to anybody in my opinion...
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Jun 30, 2015 20:38:40 GMT -5
I just must be over sensitive the the smell, it's kind of like fingernails on a chalkboard but with smell.
I can't eat goat cheese after owning goats, it tastes just like they smell. :0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 21:51:07 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with a smooth form die. My MGM/Shilen barrel seems to be on the small side, as neither the Parkers or Barnes will start down. How much sizing does a smooth die offer? What bullet options do I have? Will any .451-.452 bullet be able to be sized down enough? Do I need to lube the bullets before sizing and with what? It looks like I will need some wads, veggie wads being recommended due to smell. I saw the other day someone said they used a single drop of super glue to stick the wad to the bullet? Does this work ok? Seems like it would be easy to spend an hour sizing a whole bunch of bullets and put one of the kids to work with super glue. Thanks for the help. Vince I have a Hankins Die, well I liked it so much I bought another. Hands down the best out there! I smooth form the 275 BE and 270 EMax in one die, the 275 MH and 327 MH in the other die. Reason being two different jacket thickness. The first variety is .015" thick jackets and the second .028" thick jackets. The different jacket thicknesses spring back differently thus the diameters vary. As for sizing lube, I use Imperial Sizing Die Wax and run each bullet through the die twice. Just roll the bullet between your fingertips with a little wax on them. I have not used wads on .015" jacketed bullets but have on some 327 Match Hunters with .060"x.462" Walters Veggie Wads. Only size the bullets that you plan to shoot at your next outing as you may discover that you sized them too loosely.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 0:00:48 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with a smooth form die. My MGM/Shilen barrel seems to be on the small side, as neither the Parkers or Barnes will start down. How much sizing does a smooth die offer? What bullet options do I have? Will any .451-.452 bullet be able to be sized down enough? Do I need to lube the bullets before sizing and with what? It looks like I will need some wads, veggie wads being recommended due to smell. I saw the other day someone said they used a single drop of super glue to stick the wad to the bullet? Does this work ok? Seems like it would be easy to spend an hour sizing a whole bunch of bullets and put one of the kids to work with super glue. Thanks for the help. Vince I have a Hankins Die, well I liked it so much I bought another. Hands down the best out there! I smooth form the 275 BE and 270 EMax in one die, the 275 MH and 327 MH in the other die. Reason being two different jacket thickness. The first variety is .015" thick jackets and the second .028" thick jackets. The different jacket thicknesses spring back differently thus the diameters vary. As for sizing lube, I use Imperial Sizing Die Wax and run each bullet through the die twice. Just roll the bullet between your fingertips with a little wax on them. I have not used wads on .015" jacketed bullets but have on some 327 Match Hunters with .060"x.462" Walters Veggie Wads. Only size the bullets that you plan to shoot at your next outing as you may discover that you sized them too loosely. Different strokes for different folks I guess. The Swinglock adjusts easy so just write down the setting for each bullet and dial appropriately to size. Only one die needed
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 6:50:40 GMT -5
45omega, You are absolutely right about only one die needed. You only need one of Hankin's sizing dies to size both smooth form and full form bullets and at a cost that is less than one of Swinglock's dies. In order to size both smooth form and full form bullets, you will have to buy two dies from Swinglock, and you'll be spending about $350.00 for both setups.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 7:03:58 GMT -5
Swinglock made a 2 in 1 die for a while but determined that it was not as adjustable and wasn't willing to sell an inferior product. Word on the street is that swinglocks patent isn't just for his die but for the concept so don't diss him, you may be needing one soon...
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Post by elkman1310 on Jul 1, 2015 10:44:03 GMT -5
I posted about gluing the wads on the base of the bullet after the bullet is sized. Yes you can glue the wad on to tight. And yes I have seen a change in accuracy because the wad doesn't come off or maybe only partially comes off the base. Its hard to believe it wouldn't blow off but strange things have happened. I started doing this for some of these guys I built guns for. It easier to do this way when you use a muzzle brake
If your going to start sizing bullets you need to buy a digital micrometer that reads in 1/10ths .00000. You mention you have a Shilen barrel most of the ones I have used measure .44935 to .44965 That's when they are clean. That's the land dimension.
That is the correct size of the bullet for a clean barrel at dirty barrel will be smaller a .44935 barrel may need a bullet sized all the way down to .4491. The Parkers size different than the Hornady SST bullets. The Parkers can be a little larger . The 270 E-Max has a short bearing surface so it is easier to load.
You can buy a cheap digital micrometer just about anyhere. Without it your just guessing.
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Post by Richard on Jul 1, 2015 11:01:13 GMT -5
Again, we all have opinions as to what works best. And again, I will give my opinion based on using both wool (wonder wads) and veggie........both .030 and .060". For me I will stick with the .060 (same price as the .030 and probably a little more pressure resistant?) veggie wad. I start the wad with my finger. Invariably it is slightly cocked as it enters the crown. I happen to use the flat bottom of my aluminum powder funnel but a simple piece of wood dowel with a squared off flat bottom will work as well. (somewhat close to the diameter of the bore) Press the wad in and it will become square to the bore. Your grove diameter (in the case of the standard .45)is going to be .458". These wads are .062". What is happening is that the lands will cut into the wad allowing for a pressure fit and pushing the wad into the grove. Now put your bullet in and seat. Right from the git-go you have a very effective seal. This, I believe, is why we can get low ES's with smooth sized bullets. Little, if any, pressure escape! Again, just my feeling and opinion; the wool wad is porous and can/could allow pressure to seep by in the groves? ? Also, the veggie wads are cheaper than dirt as compared to the wool or "wonder" wads/ $21/1,000 This same procedure can also be used if using a muzzle brake. No need to be gluing wads to bullets. I do recommend that the wad be squared to the bore before inserting your bullet. A wad going down side ways under your bullet is not in the best interest of accuracy...............And yes, they can and will occasionally do that. Richard
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Post by superkirby on Jul 2, 2015 0:33:11 GMT -5
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll hopefully get stuff ordered in the near future. Probably be a week or two and see what happens.
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