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Post by Typical171 on Jun 20, 2015 15:47:59 GMT -5
Since there are not many high B.C. bullets out there for the 40 cal. I believe I am going to try to turn up some prototypes and test them out. If they prove to be worthy of a hunting bullets I am considering purchasing CNC equipment to build these. Here is what was swimming around in my head so I put it on paper (computer?) This computes out to be 253 grain bc unknown. Next I will draw up a 280-290 grain.   |
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Jun 20, 2015 17:18:22 GMT -5
Looks awesome! I'd shoot a 260 grain, not sure about the close to 300 but that may just be me.
Any idea on price point per bullet?
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Post by jims on Jun 20, 2015 22:07:24 GMT -5
My PacNor .40 with SSTs and 195 Barnes are really too loose even with knurling. If they were larger a bit in diameter I would really have interest in them.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Jun 21, 2015 13:00:30 GMT -5
At the 253 grains what is the length? We could not get the 240 CEB to shoot at 1.128" Approx. They would work in the .40's full formed if annealed but was too much bullet hanging out past the sabot to use in the .45's in a sabot. Good Luck as there are many that would be interested if can make shoot.
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Post by Typical171 on Jun 21, 2015 14:54:21 GMT -5
As far as price Ive been looking at copper prices and thats going to come in right at $1 per round for mat'l cost. So I think they could be produce for .50-.75 each so maybe 1.50 -1.75 each? But at this point thats just a guess.
Jim, that is the beauty of a custom bullet, the size can be made to whatever without really affecting any cost.
SS, the bullet comes out to 1.375 right now. I have already carved up some with a straight angle nose at this approx weight/length and they showed some promising results, but much much testing is needed. I believe with a sabot when shooting longer length bullets it would be important to use as thin as wall on the sabot as possible for best accuracy, and thats where the trouble comes in on what is available.
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Post by edge on Jun 22, 2015 7:50:23 GMT -5
Sounds like a fun project  BC guess ?? Assuming 0.400 dia. x 1.375 The Ogive appears to be about a 7 caliber and about 0.860 long with a meplat of about 0.100 @ 253 grains that should get you between 0.375 and 0.400 BC and need a twist of 1:18 ( 2700 fps, 32 deg. F, 30 inches mercury ) edge. |
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Post by Typical171 on Jun 22, 2015 15:12:56 GMT -5
Man Edge you nailed those dimensions pretty good, the ogive is .875 with a 4in radius, me plat is as you said .1
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Post by rangeball on Jun 22, 2015 15:31:09 GMT -5
I used the program Edge wrote for when designing the CEB versions of the "failed" bullet. He knows his stuff for sure Best of luck to you. If you want any hope of them shooting from a sabot match the base profile to the .40 xtp or 195 bx, keep at least one caliber of bearing surface and don't exceed 1.08" in length. As Mark stated above they many shoot FFd and annealed, but the only way we could get them to shoot saboted was by milling the nose down to 1.08". Of course that left a big meplat and bc took a dump, but I redesigned it for a 4th version using a secant ogive that stayed in that length and had a calculated bc of .3 at 223 gr but apparently CEB was tired of playing as they quit returning my emails. Really getting them to shoot saboted is where the volume likely is. Guys that want to are shooting the 240gr version 1 now sabotless with good results. |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jun 22, 2015 19:04:47 GMT -5
A 225gr that mimics a 195BX should yield at least a 10% increase in BC with a similar ogive. My WAG is it would also work in a sabot.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 22:03:49 GMT -5
Typical, you make em, there's plenty of guys that would try them, myself included.
Looks interesting.
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Post by cowhunter on Jun 24, 2015 12:57:03 GMT -5
If you get a CNC machine (I know nothing about them) it seems like you could also make bullets with the .416 CEB 340 grain design, including the boat tail. Then perhaps you could start making .416 bullets and .458 bullets with just a change of computer program. I'd be a customer.
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Post by rangeball on Jun 24, 2015 13:04:35 GMT -5
I believe CEB makes theirs on a swiss lathe. But that's how Dan told me it works, once you have the basic program set up, small changes are very quick and easy.
Pretty slick process-
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Post by Typical171 on Jun 24, 2015 20:28:11 GMT -5
If you get a CNC machine (I know nothing about them) it seems like you could also make bullets with the .416 CEB 340 grain design, including the boat tail. Then perhaps you could start making .416 bullets and .458 bullets with just a change of computer program. I'd be a customer. Yep, programming changes is very simple, like you stated with the program just a few G-code changes and your building a different bullet. |
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Post by Typical171 on Jun 24, 2015 20:32:08 GMT -5
I believe CEB makes theirs on a swiss lathe. But that's how Dan told me it works, once you have the basic program set up, small changes are very quick and easy. Pretty slick process- That is pretty slick, high dollar equipment there. What I have in mind for cnc lathe is not in that league, but would be able to produce close tolerance bullets just the same. |
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Post by Typical171 on Jun 24, 2015 20:59:52 GMT -5
Well here is the first off prototype, with manual lathe had to grind up a cutter that would produce the 4in radius ogive. its not perfect to print but it is close. they came out 255g., .55 long bearing surface and .8 ogive for and over all of 1.35 lg. As I expected, the cutter for the ogive is cutting a lot of surface at a time making it chatter, had to rotate between cutting in the Z direction and the coming in from the X direction doing that back and forth to keep the chatter down. But these are first off, I will see how they fly first before worrying about expansion. Need that CNC to get the ogive exactly the way I want it!   |
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Jun 24, 2015 21:17:06 GMT -5
Looks MEAN! I like it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:45:22 GMT -5
Nice start. Watching with interest!
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Post by Typical171 on Jun 24, 2015 22:58:39 GMT -5
Now it time to run them through the FF die and and fling em down range
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 23:08:45 GMT -5
Now it time to run them through the FF die and and fling em down range If you have extra you need flung, just let me know.... |
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Post by rob67 on Jun 25, 2015 3:38:10 GMT -5
Looks like a good start. Are you going to anneal them before sizing them? I'm guessing its a pretty hard copper
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Post by schunter on Jun 25, 2015 6:45:46 GMT -5
Excellent start. The 40 guys are drooling right now!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 7:23:09 GMT -5
Excellent start. The 40 guys are drooling right now! You guessed it, definitely anxiously awaiting.. |
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Jun 25, 2015 7:46:20 GMT -5
Excellent start. The 40 guys are drooling right now! Will definitely order several if you can get them to fly. |
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Post by superkirby on Jun 25, 2015 9:41:31 GMT -5
I wonder how that would fly saboted from a 1-14 twist? Pretty good I'm guessing.
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Post by rangeball on Jun 25, 2015 10:45:22 GMT -5
I wonder how that would fly saboted from a 1-14 twist? Pretty good I'm guessing. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer but we couldn't get the shorter lighter CEBs to fly saboted from 1-14. It will be interesting to see how these do sabotless. I sincerely hope they can be made to work. At that point maybe they can be shortened to work saboted. |
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Post by Typical171 on Jun 25, 2015 11:06:44 GMT -5
yes they will have to be annealed to run through the die.
Rangeball, your not being a downer, I to wonder if such a long nose can be made to fly accurately, but until you try a few designs you'll never find out. I don't think the major bullet makers out there are going to do any r&d for the sm world anytime soon so it kinda up to us to try different things out.
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Post by rangeball on Jun 25, 2015 11:11:14 GMT -5
yes they will have to be annealed to run through the die. Rangeball, your not being a downer, I to wonder if such a long nose can be made to fly accurately, but until you try a few designs you'll never find out. I don't think the major bullet makers out there are going to do any r&d for the sm world anytime soon so it kinda up to us to try different things outs. Absolutely. You are in a much better position, as you have the vested interest to make them fly plus are in charge of their production. One can come up with all the designs in the world but if they're relying on someone else to produce them, let's just say it's frustrating. I wish you nothing but the best of luck and am really hoping you come up with something. |
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Post by superkirby on Jun 25, 2015 22:06:33 GMT -5
I thought longer heavier bullets did better in faster twists? I can understand where the shot might be a problem though.
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Post by rangeball on Jun 26, 2015 8:46:50 GMT -5
I thought longer heavier bullets did better in faster twists? I can understand where the shot might be a problem though. Yes generally a longer heavier bullet will fly better from a faster twist rate, but it's still a balancing act and in our testingthe 1:14 wasn't adequate to stabilize a saboted bullet shorter/lighter than the one being discussed here. Whether that was do to the length, weight, base design, ogive profile, who knows, we didn't get the chance to find out. |
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Post by Typical171 on Jun 26, 2015 18:02:30 GMT -5
Ok, got a chance today to shoot the 6 I made up. The first 4 bullets off were mistakenly made with a wrong radius on the ogive ( note to self don't grind up a tool from memory of a dimension, always check your print) Anyway I shot these first. These were running 255g. 1.35 overall. I annealed and size these to the die setting of a 195 Barnes, And headed across the road to shoot. First one loaded far too hard (hammer all the way), so instead of taken the breach plug out and hammering it back out I thought I would just go ahead and shoot it.......WOWSER! 255g. with 78g. IMR 4895 wool wad Fed 209A = 3002 fps.!! was not expecting that, primer showed signs of high pressure. Calculated speed should have been 2770fps. I went back to the house and resized the remaining 5 I had to fit right. Shot the remaining 5 speed are as follows. Oh the twist is 1in16. 3002 Hammer down fit 2823 GF 2785 GF  . 2775 GF 2808 GF ( with correct ogive) 2798 GF ( with correct ogive)  Even at 2775 primers were showing signs of pressure, so I need to back it down some on the 4895 or go to maybe a IMR 4350? So now I'm out of copper stock but more is on the way!! |
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