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Post by al53 on May 27, 2015 21:19:19 GMT -5
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Post by Dave W on May 28, 2015 2:58:41 GMT -5
That has been posted on here before and dismissed as internet voodoo.
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Post by 7mmfreak on May 28, 2015 3:29:25 GMT -5
Is this one better:
At the end, during the flash test, notice how much blast exits the bore of the radial vice the side port. I think that is a good visual depiction of why all these tests turn out the same results.
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Post by rambler on May 28, 2015 8:29:05 GMT -5
That has been posted on here before and dismissed as internet voodoo. I just spoke with Brian at Shoot-Long.com (they distribute for the maker who resides in New Zeeland) and unless he's a helluv an actor this is in fact a real company that does what it boasts. Based on what we do he recommended the T3 brake. I believe he likened these models to a radial style and looked down his nose at the tacticals.
This is his number for those wishing to verify or possibly order one: 801-427-1126
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Post by Richard on May 28, 2015 10:40:51 GMT -5
The 20 min. video was good but.............if you look at the results on the AR 15, there is very little difference in recoil between the radial and the "assassin".............Certainly not price wise also. When they did the test on the AR 10............they conveniently left out the comparison with the radial brake? ?? These guys are in the market to sell their brakes. Could they change springs with different tests? ??You bet your "bippi" they could. Did they? Idunno? All I am saying is that if a independent guy like Rossman or Airborneike were to run the test, I would feel more comfortable with the results. It would be nice if Hank were to have a rifle at the next Fall Kentucky challenge with two brakes..........Radial and Tactical where participants could shoot both and get a real world feel for any perceived difference in recoil. Yes, those brakes have a definite "COOL" factor and that is what "floats some peoples boats?" Richard
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Post by hankinsrfls on May 28, 2015 14:17:41 GMT -5
Here is what Lynnwood Harrell has to say about muzzle brakes.. Copied from his website..
"Let's be frank. After having made tens of thousands of muzzle brakes in dozens of styles over the last 25 years, we know what works best. If there were a better brake, we would be making it. No muzzle brake made today, at any price, will reduce recoil any better than ours. Independent tests have shown that muzzle brakes with price tags up to 3 times that of ours, and advertised as being much quieter, are in fact only 4-to-6 percent quieter than ours. They also aren't as effective in reducing recoil. That's the trade-off - if they are effective, they are noisy. Don't be duped into buying a "quieter" brake for 3 times the price"
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Post by rambler on May 28, 2015 14:22:37 GMT -5
tnhunter, I do not mean to hijack your thread, but does anyone really use a break out in the woods? I mean the times I've been around guys shooting with one I had to put in foam ear plugs and a pair of ear muffs. And doesn't the POI change when not using the break??
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Post by Richard on May 28, 2015 15:02:22 GMT -5
I used one on my 7/08 XP-100 (15" barrel) when antelope hunting in Montana. The guide got a rude awakening when he was leaning down giving me my range finder reading and I pulled the trigger. The "speed goat" didn't hear it but he did! Richard
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Post by 7mmfreak on May 28, 2015 16:58:17 GMT -5
tnhunter, I do not mean to hijack your thread, but does anyone really use a break out in the woods? I mean the times I've been around guys shooting with one I had to put in foam ear plugs and a pair of ear muffs. And doesn't the POI change when not using the break?? A gun doesn't kick less when you hunt and given the stout loads some guys run through their guns I would hunt my brake. I don't shoot the hammer loads some guys do but I leave the brake on. I also hunt pretty mobile (no tree stands or shoot houses for this guy) and shoot from alts so my eye is a little closer than it is from the bench/shoot-house so I want my brake. If I only shot 250gn or 275gn bullets at reasonable velocities (like the slower loads I shot in my NULA) I wouldn't worry about it. I know when I shoot the 300-327gn bullets they generate enough recoil that I want the brake regardless of whether I am on the range or in the woods. That T3 Terminator is most certainly a side port, not even closely related to a radial. It looks just like the APA Fat Bastard (only the T3 is milled flat on top and bottom) which is one of the most popular brakes on the circuit. I'll be putting one (APA that is not T3) on a new 6.5 Creed in a couple of months. As Jeff mentioned, none are quiet and anyone claiming that is a liar (what Harrell's site doesn't say is a radial works better than a side-port). I always find that argument invalid for hunting also. Unless you hunt with a can you should wear ear plugs if the opportunity exists. Rich, My buddy is going to build me a sled track (after he does a case annealer) and I'll test a radial against side port brake: 1 each of Harrell's Tactical and Radial. I can also test my Templar side port against a Harrell's radial. It will probably take a little while to get it all together (I need to install two radials and get the sled built) and done but it will be a DMB original. I don't know the answers to your "what if's": if they changed springs, if they over-bored the radial, if they greased the skids on the radial and put sand in there for the side-port. What if frogs had machine guns? Snakes wouldn't mess with them. Jeff, If you want to put your radial into the test, shoot me a PM with instructions to ship my barreled action to you or send me an invoice for the brake and I'll have it installed with some other work I'm having done.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 17:10:18 GMT -5
to answer your question, yes guys do hunt with brakes. I will give an example. I put together a lightweight 700 ML (8 lbs with brake and base)for a gent, it wears a Harrells Tac brake and also has a cap in case he wants to go naked. Load used in his gun is 70 grns H-4198 and a 300 MH and it shoots it VERY accurately. recoil with said load is not bad at all, matter of fact he claims it has considerably less recoil than his 11 lb gun I did for him 3 years ago? he told me he would hunt without his brake, my reply was U sure? needless to say he hunts with his brake, why? recoil with that load in a gun that light is absolutely BRUTAL!
I also hunt with electronic muffs with my braked barrels, not because I want to but I really don't want to get knocked out of my stand, that might be a stretch but believe me anything under 10 lbs with a full power load is no fun at all to pull the trigger on without that knob on the end of the barrel...
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Post by rambler on May 28, 2015 17:19:35 GMT -5
I have a friend who lives in Iowa. Him and a buddy went on a guided speed goat hunt in Montana I believe. He told me his guides would not allow breaks on their hunt. He was using a 45 cal Bad Bull with a break.
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Post by markb317 on May 28, 2015 17:59:30 GMT -5
Also just because two breaks look the same does not mean they are. Some have the ports or holes drilled straight into them then there are some with the holes angled back towards the shooter some or angled forward towards the muzzle. A break with the holes angled back will reduce recoil more then on with them angled forward but will seem a little louder because of the direction the gases are directed.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 18:14:36 GMT -5
I used one on my 7/08 XP-100 (15" barrel) when antelope hunting in Montana. The guide got a rude awakening when he was leaning down giving me my range finder reading and I pulled the trigger. The "speed goat" didn't hear it but he did! Richard That's funny right there, I don't care who you are! Lol
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Post by hankinsrfls on May 28, 2015 18:22:11 GMT -5
Jeff,
If you want to put your radial into the test, shoot me a PM with instructions to ship my barreled action to you or send me an invoice for the brake and I'll have it installed with some other work I'm having done.
[/quote]
Keith.
I make my brakes just like Harrell's brakes except I drill my holes in a straight line instead of a spiral pattern.. I do it that way because it is easier for me to machine, not because I think it works better., it works exactly the same.. Harrell uses a CNC indexing head and once he pushes the cycle start button he can walk away until all the holes are drilled. I have to drill each one using my rusty old indexing head and it takes awhile to drill all the holes. The boring and internal threading is done on my CNC lathe and that's the most important part to get correct when making a brake..
I don't think my brakes are any more effective than Harrell's brakes, they should be the same..
I don't offer brakes for sale as a seperate part either as I can not compete with Harrells prices.. I use to buy all my brakes from Lynnwood and he is a heck of a nice guy. and i still get my tactical style brakes from him. I only make radial style brakes for my rifles, but I'll use what ever brake my customer wants as long as it is a quality part.
All brakes that divert the gasses out to the side will be an effective brake. Will some do a better job than others,, sure they will, but the measurable difference is very minimal.
You can have three gunsmiths install the same brake (let's say a Harrell's radial) on the same gun and test it,, you will get three different measurements in recoil reduction.
Some smiths will drill a .020 over bore hole thought the entire brake, some will drill a .625 hole all the way to the last port then bring it to the .020 over bullet diameter and some will do a two or three step down to the .020 over bullet diameter and all three methods are effective but each one will give you different results..
I'm sure the big brakes that use catchy sales names like THE TERMINATOR or THE ASSASSIN or THE MUSCLE BRAKE work well but at the prices they want for them the should..
Muzzle brakes are not that complicated, their only function is to divert the gasses created by the burning powder therefor eliminating some of the felt recoil.
I like the looks of a tactical brake when it is used on a tactical style rifle, I like the looks of a radial when it is used on a bench gun or a plain Jane hunting rifle. They will both do the job at hand and the end user will be happy with the results..
Jeff Hankins..
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 18:34:51 GMT -5
tnhunter, I do not mean to hijack your thread, but does anyone really use a break out in the woods? I mean the times I've been around guys shooting with one I had to put in foam ear plugs and a pair of ear muffs. And doesn't the POI change when not using the break?? I shot my Hankins SPML a few times without the brake. The POI did not change at 100yds with the 275 match hunters that I was shooting. I definitely could tell a difference with and without the brake. My brake is a Hankins Radial Brake. Kyle
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Post by rambler on May 28, 2015 19:03:43 GMT -5
tnhunter, I do not mean to hijack your thread, but does anyone really use a break out in the woods? I mean the times I've been around guys shooting with one I had to put in foam ear plugs and a pair of ear muffs. And doesn't the POI change when not using the break?? I shot my Hankins SPML a few times without the brake. The POI did not change at 100yds with the 275 match hunters that I was shooting. I definitely could tell a difference with and without the brake. My brake is a Hankins Radial Brake. Kyle What is a 'SPML'?
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Post by hankinsrfls on May 28, 2015 19:10:48 GMT -5
I shot my Hankins SPML a few times without the brake. The POI did not change at 100yds with the 275 match hunters that I was shooting. I definitely could tell a difference with and without the brake. My brake is a Hankins Radial Brake. Kyle What is a 'SPML'? Think about it for a minute............................... SPML = Smokeless Powder Muzzle Loader.
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Post by rambler on May 28, 2015 19:18:09 GMT -5
Think about it for a minute............................... SPML = Smokeless Powder Muzzle Loader. Just jokin' Jeff
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Post by hankinsrfls on May 28, 2015 19:52:52 GMT -5
Think about it for a minute............................... SPML = Smokeless Powder Muzzle Loader. Just jokin' Jeff He,he,he,,, I thought so....
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Post by rambler on May 28, 2015 19:55:35 GMT -5
Just jokin' Jeff He,he,he,,, I thought so.... When did it go from SML to SPML??
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Post by Richard on May 28, 2015 20:51:05 GMT -5
I don't think it did for most. Jeff is was just throwing you a curve I go on this 300 Blackout forum from time to time and these guy all use abbreviations.......................I do a lot of head scratchin'. They fail to realize that "newbies" are always coming on the forum and have no idea what they are talking about. Richard
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Post by al53 on May 30, 2015 8:59:02 GMT -5
At our club you can't use a brake if other people are there but have seen some useing a radial brake with people there...and i talked to them about it..they said the radial does not disperce the blast like a tactical so they use a radial....from what I was told when they did not care about brakes at first..the people with tacticals were blowing stuff off the next bench..so they stopped it...but so far no one has complained about the radials except for the noise...but if the shoot house is packed..no brakes allowed
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Post by dennisinva on Jun 3, 2015 21:13:57 GMT -5
I don't size my bullets or anything I just buy them and they fit perfect and shoot perfect. So I should have no problems with a radial brake then? You will most likely need a funnel that you can slide down the brake to align the bullet with the bore. This will make starting them much easier. Jeff Hankins Very similar to this one. Hey Jeff, does the projectile slide thru that funnel? If so, how much clearance did you put in the brake? Thanks, Dennis
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jun 3, 2015 21:25:11 GMT -5
Yes the .450 bullets slide down the funnel while it is in place.. The brake is reamed to .500 to allow the stem on the funnel to have a wall thickness of .024... Normal clearance for a bullet through a brake is .020 but even at .050 which is .025 on each side the brake is still very effective..
Jeff Hankins..
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Post by bigmoose on Jun 4, 2015 12:57:18 GMT -5
It would been helpful if they used 338, 300 ultra mag, 375 H&H and 378 Weatherby. hunting weight rifles Do folks put brakes on 06's?
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jun 4, 2015 16:51:43 GMT -5
It would been helpful if they used 338, 300 ultra mag, 375 H&H and 378 Weatherby. hunting weight rifles Do folks put brakes on 06's? I have put brakes on everything from the 204 Ruger to the 375 Cheytac... So anything goes... Jeff Hankins..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 20:20:16 GMT -5
I boght a cva hunter rifle in 35 whelen and a month ago Cole Meyers put a Harrel's radial brake on it and it is such a pleasure to shoot now.I bought some hornady superperformancw 200 grain bullets and the velocity on those were 2920 fps.It was a little rough to handle with those.
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Post by dennisinva on Jun 4, 2015 20:57:10 GMT -5
Yeah, we sell a bunch of brakes. I don't come on this forum very much or very often. I was surprised to see this thread. I want to thank all of you who use our products.
We just made some "Sabot Brakes" for the 50 caliber shooters. Had a customer send us one to copy. He was VERY persistent and would basically take no for an answer.
(yeah, I work at Harrell's)
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Post by dennisinva on Jun 4, 2015 20:59:52 GMT -5
You will most likely need a funnel that you can slide down the brake to align the bullet with the bore. This will make starting them much easier. Jeff Hankins Very similar to this one. Hey Jeff, does the projectile slide thru that funnel? If so, how much clearance did you put in the brake? Thanks, Dennis Is that funnel made out of aluminum or stainless? I made one out of Delrin but mine was .020" over bullet diameter. It made a good bullet starter too.
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Post by bigmoose on Jun 5, 2015 14:21:18 GMT -5
Jeff,
I have no doubt you could put a brake on a water gun [SMILE}
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