Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 11:54:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 11:54:28 GMT -5
So after reading that Hillbill had an issue with a scope over the weekend shoot it got me thinking. Our sml have some terrible recoil and are hard on scopes even higher $$$ scopes have issues. So it has me wondering what if any scopes can handle the recoil at a certain amount of time. So it seems this might have been brought up before however I feel in light of what happened over the shoot with a scope not handling the recoil what scopes have people used and been able to handle recoil for a long period of time. Honestly I think every now and then any scope will have an issue depending on circumstances.
So what scopes have people used and had good luck with that scope over a period of time. Nikon, Leupold, Vortex, Bushnell, Zeiss, nightforce, and any other brands. Good bad experiences with any of these scopes.
Also what's your thoughts on 1" vs 30mm for durability and light transmission. One better than the other?
I picked up a Vortex Viper HS and haven't had a chance to test it out but hope good things will come from it. I've had great luck with Nikon omega and the newer Prostaff 5. Just felt the vortex would hold up better.
Any suggestions comments stories will be great.
|
|
|
Post by tnhunter54 on May 19, 2015 12:05:49 GMT -5
I have a Leupold VX III 4.5-14x40mm LR on a 300 win mag and had to send it back about 6 months ago because it went south on me, Lets see how long it last this time. I sure did hate to hear that about hillbills scope as I just bought the same one and getting ready to mount it on my new gun. Glad they have the 5 year no fault warranty.
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on May 19, 2015 12:13:34 GMT -5
I think we have to not just look at brands but certain models within brands.example- there are some Burris's I would not put on these ml's.
I will vouch for 2 I have had great service on top of these top fuel sml dragsters.
burris xtrII & nightforce nsx
|
|
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 12:23:12 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 12ptdroptine on May 19, 2015 12:23:12 GMT -5
Its going to happen..plain and simple. We are at the upper limits of scope punishment. I have also had a Ziess failure...so...things hapen. I have also had Leupold failure..I still own and shoot both brands. Enough of these rounds through these guns and failure is ging to happen. Time isnt an issue..round count is. I had one with 15 rounds through it fail. Trust Ziess more than took care of me. A person may have had the scope on the fin for 5 years and only 50 rds theough it wheee as some may put that many through one every weekend. So time isnt the factor.in my instances I suspect that my lead sled with weight instaled may have accelelerated the problem. But I am not waving the finger at it.proper mounts...mounting..bases and rings and installation can all contribute to failure.i tha afore mentioned instance I am positive thar as many scopes that Hilbill has installed that it was done to perfection. The HD line of scopes from Ziess is a pretty new line...and sometimes with new designs and products there are some issues to overcome. And these guns arent your average muzzeleloaders. The more roinds we throw down range....the more we are going to see fail Drop
|
|
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 12:26:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 12ptdroptine on May 19, 2015 12:26:38 GMT -5
Sorry for the typo's....me gots fat fingers...and a little keyboard Drop
|
|
|
Post by rangeball on May 19, 2015 12:27:55 GMT -5
I refuse to post in this thread for fear of jinxing myself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 12:56:14 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 12:56:14 GMT -5
Scope's that have failed on me on SMLs; Only a sample list and many were on other guys builds 1.Zeiss a (few) 2.leupold ( several) 3. IOR Valdada (one) 4.swaro. (One) 5.cabelas euro (3 shots) 6. Nikon. 1 I have used more Zeiss and leupold than anything else and there are a few makes that I haven't used. Yes these guns are scope busters, especially with heavy bullets and stiff loads
These are only the ones that stick fresh in my mind, I'm sure there have been others after they left my hands
|
|
|
Post by miketodd58 on May 19, 2015 13:12:37 GMT -5
I tend to buy Leupold and Nikon because of the lifetime warranty.
I read about Vortex having a lifetime warranty but then I read where you have to have a specific inch pound crank on the rings for the tube. If the tubes are that fragile I do not think I want to have any part of Vortex.
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 19, 2015 14:05:33 GMT -5
The old Rem./PN had 3600 shots thru a used Leupold MK IV 16X. Prior to putting it on, I sent it to Leupold to have the reticule changed from fine dot to mil dot. When I had them on the line I also advised them this scope was being used on a hard kicking smoke less muzzle loader and for them to check or replace any springs internally that controlled he erector tube. I was informed that this scope was "rated for the .50 BMG" and there was no worry about the erector tube coming apart. Of course you know, the next time I go to the range, it will "BLOW UP!" But that many shots and it has not skipped a beat. Prior to that scope I had used a Burris compact mag. 4 - 14 scope on my .50 Savage and .45 Sav./PN launching well over 300 rounds and it is still in good working condition.....or at least it was when I took it off. Richard
|
|
|
Post by Dave W on May 19, 2015 14:19:20 GMT -5
Stay away from side focus and AO scopes to help minimize issues, easier said than done and I don't follow my own advice.
The Sightron SII BS I have has taken the most abuse, the AO went out on it once, but it has seen a lot of shots before and after the failure. I think 2000 shots overall is a conservative estimate. Their customer service is top notch, right there with Leupold.
My Gold Ring has seen quite a few shots as well, AO failure on that one too. I don't think their quality is what it was in the past but there is a lot of them out there and their customer service is great.
My Bushy Elite 4200 is a failure waiting to happen! Love the features for a hunting scope but it has been nothing but a problem child. Has not held up well and their customer service is by far the worst company I have ever dealt with. Made a promise to myself I will never buy another Bushnell product. That said, the Elite 3200, no AO, is like the old Timex ad, takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Sat on nothing but sluggers and MLs and never had an issue with it.
Buddy has a Clearidge XP5, he does not shoot much and shoots a light recoil load, but he has had it for several years with no issues.
Sightron tech told me once that the only advantage between a 30mm and 1" scope is the tube thickness and strength.
|
|
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 15:07:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bestill on May 19, 2015 15:07:47 GMT -5
Ive had great luck with weaver super slam it has taken near 1000 rounds all good and so far vortex hst been good to about200 rounds still going. Bushnell elite tactical at about1000 rounds the side focus is very sloppy Now
|
|
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 15:34:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hankinsrfls on May 19, 2015 15:34:00 GMT -5
I tend to buy Leupold and Nikon because of the lifetime warranty. I read about Vortex having a lifetime warranty but then I read where you have to have a specific inch pound crank on the rings for the tube. If the tubes are that fragile I do not think I want to have any part of Vortex. Mike.. The rating vortex gives is not to prevent crushing the tubes, it is to prevent people from braking or stripping the screw threads in the scope rings.. Vortex is a top notch scope when you buy their higher end stuff, but like most everything, you get what you pay for.. I have mounted more Vortex Viper PST scopes on these SML's than any other scope and I have not had one to fail yet. I've never needed to return a scope to Vortex and I've sold several hundred of them over the years.. All I know is every time I call them a real person answers the phone and my sales rep is spot on every time I order from them.. Their products can't be beat for the dollars spent... Several of the best groups shot this weekend at the challenge was shot using a Vortex Viper PST.. So I wouldn't be scared of their heads up advice about over tightening the mounting screws... Thanks. Jeff Hankins..
|
|
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 16:29:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hankinsrfls on May 19, 2015 16:29:27 GMT -5
I have only had two scopes to go bad on these ML rifles. Both were on oneshotikes rifle.. The first one was a Millet and the second one was a Bushnell 4200 elite.
The Millet lasted about 20 rounds and the 4200 lasted less than that..
I sent the Millet back and was informed it was defiantly toast and they were replacing it with a different model. The 4200 was never sent back.. I keep telling myself I need to do that but just haven't.
I did have problems this weekend with my rifle.. It was shooting really good until the 300 yard match,, then on the second shot it went 4 inches to the right and consistently shot 4 inches to the right the rest of the weekend. Now I haven't had a chance to look at it yet but the possibility of a scope malfunction is there.. The scope is a nightforce NSX 5.5-22X56.. I called nightforce and they said it had a lifetime warranty so if I think it's the scope to send it in and they would give it a go over and inspect it.. They also told me that occasionally they will have a scope go bad but not to often.. This one is about 8 years old and has been on a lot of rifles.. So who knows... It could also be a broke screw in the base or the possibility of a loose ring bolt.. I'll let you guys know what I find out...
Thanks. Jeff Hankins..
|
|
|
Post by miketodd58 on May 19, 2015 16:47:40 GMT -5
I tend to buy Leupold and Nikon because of the lifetime warranty. I read about Vortex having a lifetime warranty but then I read where you have to have a specific inch pound crank on the rings for the tube. If the tubes are that fragile I do not think I want to have any part of Vortex. Mike.. The rating vortex gives is not to prevent crushing the tubes, it is to prevent people from braking or stripping the screw threads in the scope rings.. Vortex is a top notch scope when you buy their higher end stuff, but like most everything, you get what you pay for.. I have mounted more Vortex Viper PST scopes on these SML's than any other scope and I have not had one to fail yet. I've never needed to return a scope to Vortex and I've sold several hundred of them over the years.. All I know is every time I call them a real person answers the phone and my sales rep is spot on every time I order from them.. Their products can't be beat for the dollars spent... Several of the best groups shot this weekend at the challenge was shot using a Vortex Viper PST.. So I wouldn't be scared of their heads up advice about over tightening the mounting screws... Thanks. Jeff Hankins.. You would be the man to know that information Jeff. I would have swore I read on here and elsewhere where members have had to return tubes due to over torxing ring specs . Anyone else recall that? Or did I dream that?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 16:59:26 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 16:59:26 GMT -5
I did on a Vortex Crossfire however you need to realize one I didn't know anything about torquing the rings down at that time so when I did tighten rings down I went into the screw's stopped turning. Two the crossfire is the low end of the vortex line up. Vortex replaced the scope no questions asked however did inform me on my errors. After that I bought the wheeler scope mounting kit with lapping bars level and torque screw driver. Best investment I could have made!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 17:19:56 GMT -5
I've got 3 Sightron SIII's 6-24x 8-32x 10-50x Clearest of the 3, but when the mirage shows up in the middle of the day...not fun...
All three have taken a pounding from the T-Rex loads I shoot, and they've held up great.
I now have a Burris XTR II 8-40x, that I will try on the SMLs this summer. Holy smokes the glass is bright!
I like the Sightron turrets and dials better than the XTR II turrets though.
The best thing to do is to take a scope in that you currently have and compare it to a high dollar scope.
I took my 6-24x and 8-32x SIII's into a sporting good store to compare them to NF's.
The NF 5.5-22x was a little clearer than the SIII 6-24, on high magnification.
But the Sightron SIII 8-32x was noticeably clearer than the NF 8-32x at high power.
You be the judge....take your scopes in and compare them to others.
|
|
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 17:34:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by markb317 on May 19, 2015 17:34:32 GMT -5
I have used a Vortex PST 4-16 on a sml for 3 yes with no issues. I am now using Night forces, NXS and ATACR have held up well . The NXS was on my .416 for 6 months and is still holding up on my .45. I torque all scope tube rings to 20 inch pounds and never had an issue of slipping.
|
|
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 17:35:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by lwh723 on May 19, 2015 17:35:38 GMT -5
I tend to buy Leupold and Nikon because of the lifetime warranty. I read about Vortex having a lifetime warranty but then I read where you have to have a specific inch pound crank on the rings for the tube. If the tubes are that fragile I do not think I want to have any part of Vortex. Mike.. The rating vortex gives is not to prevent crushing the tubes, it is to prevent people from braking or stripping the screw threads in the scope rings.. Vortex is a top notch scope when you buy their higher end stuff, but like most everything, you get what you pay for.. I have mounted more Vortex Viper PST scopes on these SML's than any other scope and I have not had one to fail yet. I've never needed to return a scope to Vortex and I've sold several hundred of them over the years.. All I know is every time I call them a real person answers the phone and my sales rep is spot on every time I order from them.. Their products can't be beat for the dollars spent... Several of the best groups shot this weekend at the challenge was shot using a Vortex Viper PST.. So I wouldn't be scared of their heads up advice about over tightening the mounting screws... Thanks. Jeff Hankins.. Actually the rating is so the tube doesn't crush. Vortex told that to me directly after I killed one of their scopes from over tightening.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 18:07:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 18:07:33 GMT -5
Good info and a bunch of input here. All mine will be Weaver scopes, we will see how they hold up. My next round I believe I will give Clearridge a try, unless I can swing a NF.
|
|
|
SML Scopes
May 19, 2015 18:18:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hankinsrfls on May 19, 2015 18:18:57 GMT -5
Over tightening might just be the problem.. With some of the new 6 bolt rings that are using 8-40 screws I can see it very possible to crush tubes., not only Vortex scopes but any other scopes as well..
The best thing to do is mount your scope correctly, understand torque ratings and torque sequence. Make sure you know the difference between an inch pound and a foot pound. Don't crank down one screw all the way and then do another. Tighten up the screws in a criss cross pattern a little at a time, keeping the gap between the ring top half and the bottom equally spaced, until you have all screws tightened to 20-25 inch pounds..
Jeff Hankins.
|
|
|
Post by rkrobson on May 19, 2015 19:10:07 GMT -5
I've had 4, yes 4 Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14 Rapid Z 800 AO fail, only the side focus fails, it will spin like a top when it brakes. The scope does continue to work fine, just without the AO. I have a 2 year old Leupold VX3 4.5-14 LR AO at Leupold now, started hitting left and right 11", probably 500 rounds through it, cabon fiber braked Ultimate 50 caliber, a real kicker. I had a another Leupold AO fail 10 years ago, older style where the AO was on the front of scope, lense actually got knocked loose. A gunsmith and long range competition shooter once told me they all fail, but the Smidt-Bender and Nightforce fail less. I do wonder if the AO is a problem as dave w stated. Ray
|
|
|
Post by kbrezlin on May 19, 2015 19:10:19 GMT -5
I crushed the tube on a Vortex Viper by overnighting. Their warranty did cover STUPIDITY on my part. They told me 18 inch pounds on the rings was all I needed. I have had very good luck with Vortex, and also Leupold. I had a VX3 i sent back that was on my Savage stock 50 cal that broke and was repaired no problem.
|
|
|
Post by encore50a on May 19, 2015 19:35:29 GMT -5
Every Nikon Monarch I've owned was sent in for repairs, which Nikon covered.
I shoot a Leupold VX-6 which is on another heavy kicker too, a braked Ultimate BP Xpress 50. So far its holding perfect after 800 rounds - 180grs T7 and 300gr bullet.
|
|
|
Post by miketodd58 on May 19, 2015 23:17:24 GMT -5
Over tightening might just be the problem.. With some of the new 6 bolt rings that are using 8-40 screws I can see it very possible to crush tubes., not only Vortex scopes but any other scopes as well.. The best thing to do is mount your scope correctly, understand torque ratings and torque sequence. Make sure you know the difference between an inch pound and a foot pound. Don't crank down one screw all the way and then do another. Tighten up the screws in a criss cross pattern a little at a time, keeping the gap between the ring top half and the bottom equally spaced, until you have all screws tightened to 20-25 inch pounds.. Jeff Hankins. Thanks Jeff. I knew I was not dreaming the over tightening the tube situation, ,my point being is/ was that if the specs on the tube are so critical that you have to use a inch pound torx wrench to calibrate the torx spec..it's not a scope I feel comfortable owning. back before I understood everything you just mention I cranked the freak out of some tunes from various brands and I gotta say I never had to worry about crushing a tube from over torx ing a ring. Usually the cheap little wrenches would strip out way before that or the Allen head would wallow out. Now days I suspect the screws are made of better heat treatment, they are torx not Allen. People are using gunsmith drivers not wrenches.. So yeah I could see someone getting carried away not knowing what they are doing and over cranking,
|
|
|
Post by miketodd58 on May 19, 2015 23:26:04 GMT -5
Every Nikon Monarch I've owned was sent in for repairs, which Nikon covered.
I shoot a Leupold VX-6 which is on another heavy kicker too, a braked Ultimate BP Xpress 50. So far its holding perfect after 800 rounds - 180grs T7 and 300gr bullet. I was so impressed with the Leopold VXR that I went out and bought another one, problem is I don't have a thing to mount it on, I hate to dismount a perfectly good scope that is allready zeroed. Guess it's time to buy another muzzleloader.
|
|
|
Post by joe1379 on May 20, 2015 0:56:11 GMT -5
Hopefully I won't Jinx myself but I have been impressed with my weavers. I know the classic extreme is not made in Japan any longer but it seems to be a heck of a good scope for the money----so far. Have about 150 hard kicking rounds through it and no problem. I also have a super slam on my break action smoker and that has about 100 rounds through it, no issues. Again, knocking on wood. I had a leupold vari x II on a slug gun that went south last year but they stuck by their product and fixed it quickly. I actually tried a cheap Simmons on my break action when I first got it for giggles. Three shots and the crosshairs were sideways. Lol. I have two vortex crossfire scopes that have held up to many hard recoil loads through a 12 guage slug gun as well. Hopefully these weavers keep holding up on the SML's as I really like them.
|
|
|
Post by jims on May 20, 2015 6:35:20 GMT -5
Fortunately I have not had any scopes go bad but I do not shoot as much as some nor the huge loads some do. Of late I have used more WCEs and like them.
|
|
|
Post by al53 on May 20, 2015 8:01:19 GMT -5
Now were the scopes you people had fail ..were they shot mostly from a sled or off shooting bags...I have 6 ML's and they have either leupold VXR's or Vortex Vipers...I use the sled mostly to sight scopes in or testing bullets and then when shooting I use either a full bag or a front stand..reason I ask is if its from the sled I will avoid using it for any extended shooting...
|
|
|
Post by ratsnakeboogy on May 20, 2015 8:29:25 GMT -5
I use Leupold VXRs and one Minox. I don't shoot T-Rex loads, but my guns are very light so add that to the equation.
I use Redfield Revolutions on my sons' Encore conversions, and I have a Burris Timberline and a Nikon Omega on my two Encores. No problems yet, knock on wood.
|
|
|
Post by encore50a on May 20, 2015 13:11:19 GMT -5
Now were the scopes you people had fail ..were they shot mostly from a sled or off shooting bags...I have 6 ML's and they have either leupold VXR's or Vortex Vipers...I use the sled mostly to sight scopes in or testing bullets and then when shooting I use either a full bag or a front stand..reason I ask is if its from the sled I will avoid using it for any extended shooting... Great question............
The Nikons were shot from both a full rest and later I bought a sled. With the Nikons it didn't matter, I've sent back Monarch scopes from shooting from both. My VX-6 has been shot maybe 600 times from a sled and the remaining 200 times from a front rest and shoulder only. (NMLRA - Friendship shooting)
I've talked to both Nikon and Leupold about scopes breaking while using sleds. BOTH have emphatically told me that sleds do not make a difference.
Want to get one of the companies really wound up? Ask them exactly what forces they test their scopes to.......
|
|