New Savage/Mcgowan 45 build, where to start?

[giannid]

I just put a new barrel from Luke on my savage ml2 and was wondering where to start.  Think I've decided to shoot 250 grain bullets and have xtp, ftx, barnes tez, and parker be bullets I'll be sizing.  Have vv110 as a booster and h4198 as a primary.  I'm hoping to develop a load with the cheap xtp bullets and move on to see which out of the others shoot the best.  Will my best shooting charge in the xtp bullets also be the best charge for the others?  What should I start out as a charge and what should be my max with 250 grain bullets?  I've done a lot of load development with centerfire rifles and it's usually published where to start and stop.  Just wondering what you guys found the best in my combination as it's pretty common around here.  I tried doing a search and found some information but the search function isn't working properly.

[jims]

A good starting point for many with those powders has been 10 grains of the starter and 50 grains of the main. One can work up from there. Some have used up to 60 grains of the main but I did not find it necessary for my shooting and the recoil is heavier.
If you go to the load section of this site there are some suggested loads that have proven well. You do have two good powders.

[giannid]

Also forgot to mention have bothe the thick and thin veggie wads and the non lubricated wool wads. Wondering which one your guys Mcgowan likes best. Hope not to burn up all my bullets and powder to try and figure it out. Obviously lots of variables here to get these guns to shoot. Federal 209a primers.

[1coyotemaster]

I shoot the 250 FTX and like it's performance on deer, I have only killed 2 with it but it has a pretty good BC and stays together. I am using the 10/50 load with 5744 as a starter and of course 4198 as a main.The recoil is very mild without a brake and the accuracy is very acceptable.
I too have a bunch of XTPs from my Savage ML days and they are good to use for getting on paper and work well on deer but they are limiting as far as long shooting goes due to the low BC. There are far more experienced shooters of SMLs here but I would develop a load with the bullet you plan to hunt with and spend some time off season shooting at different yardages.

[dannoboone]

When sighting in my son's McGowen barreled Rem, I found
it to string vertically with dry wool wads. Without
changing a thing other than using the thicker veggie
wads, it grouped very well.

[Richard]

Just to put your mind at ease, I have, for a number of years now, shot 10/60...................10 gr. of Clays (which is way faster than your N-110) under 60 gr. of H-4198 (IMR can be substituted) with bullets ranging from 200 gr. to 300 grain with absolutely no adverse pressure effects. Velocities with those projectiles range from the mid to high 2900's down to around 2650 fps for the 300 grain bullets. You are definitely in the right ballpark using the 10 gr. of N-110, 5744 and even better yet, 4759 for your 10 gr. starter............but, you could also use Clays, Red Dot, Blue Dot and Green Dot and still be on the safe side. As far as wads??I have shot those you mentioned. Never a big difference with any of them? I have mainly stayed with the .060 veggie wad. The .030 works as well as two .030's? NO difference. The wool wads??? I just don't like the smell of burnt wool and they are way, way more expensive than veggie wads with no added accuracy benefit.
Guys like Earnhardt will shoot some very robust loads with very heavy bullets at amazing velocities..........He also does not list his charge........But...........He is also using barrels with a LOT of "meat" over the chamber area which will allow for higher safe pressures. Your Savage barrel will be much thinner in this area.
That 10/60 charge I listed above can be tweaked by lowering and upping both charges (always remember that the booster is a higher pressure charge) So, you may try say......8 gr. of your booster along with 62 grain of the 4198? or, maybe try 11 gr. of booster and drop the main charge to 58 gr.? Try 5 gr. of booster with say 63 grain of the main charge. You may just find a "custom charge" that your gun likes. As a new comer, I would stay within these parameters until you have a feel for smoke less muzzle loading.
AND, there is nothing wrong with straight "main" charges if you find they work for you. The problem with shooting sabot less is getting the bullet to expand in the bore (also referred to as OBTURATE) as soon as possible so it grabs the rifling in order to start spinning immediately. A die know as a full form die made with a piece of your barrel will impart rifling onto the bullet and help this process.........but that is another topic.
Hope this helps
Richard

[giannid]

Thanks for the help guys. I'm not new to smokeless muzzleloading as I've owned a savage ml2 for over 10 years and also have an encore conversion by slufoot. I'm new to the sabotless 45 caliber shooting and it'll be new to me. Any recomendations on bullet sizing? I'm going to play with the xtp bullets before I start with the more expensive bullets. My savage is set up with a nice vortex scope and hoping I can make it a 300 yard dear gun if all goes well. I'll be sticking with the duplex load as I live in ohio and it's not unusual to see temps in the single digits in the late muzzleloader season. Have some 4759 also but figure I'll stick with the vv110 as I always liked it better in my 50 barrel.

[Dave W]

The XTPs did not like the same charge weight as the FTXs for me. XTP has a thinner jacket than the FTX, and a nice squared off base as opposed to the slight radiused base of the FTX. FTX needed more powder for me. They will size differently also, actually you will likely have different die settings for all the bullets you mentioned to get the same resistance.

I prefer the veggies but you will have to experiment to find the right combo.

[jims]

I may have missed it but unsure if you have the barrel drop to get a full formed die. Several sell/make the smooth formed dies and if thin enough jacketed bullets are used full formed might not be required. Sometimes one gets lucky and finds a bullet that works well just out of the box with the barrel dimensions.
If you get a good 300 yard rifle you will have a "dear" gun. Very doable actually.

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2015 10:02:51 GMT -5 giannid said:

Also forgot to mention have bothe the thick and thin veggie wads and the non lubricated wool wads. Wondering which one your guys Mcgowan likes best. Hope not to burn up all my bullets and powder to try and figure it out. Obviously lots of variables here to get these guns to shoot. Federal 209a primers.

I never shot alot of 250 gr bullets out of my McGowens, just the 250 sst's smooth sized, I shot them with 10/60 N110/H322, .060 veggie wads and fed 209a primers and had good groups at 100 yards.
I primarily shoot 275 BE's or 275 MH's out of my Mcgowen .45's and I mainly shoot charges of 10/60, 11/59 and 12/58 of the N110/H322 and have great success with all 3. You could substitute the H322 with your 4198 and also likely have success. I only shoot .060 veggie wads. You may need to kick the 250 SST's with a lil faster booster and back the main down to find your best accuracy with those particular bullets, idk. I have shot sub moa 100 yard groups with straight charges of 70 gr 4198 and the 275 BE. Bench time and testing will tell. A bunch of good advice has already been given. Best of luck.

[cuda]

I use 69gr of IMR4198 when I shoot. I use the same load from 250gr to 300gr bullets. In my Stevens McGowan 45 my son and I likes the 290gr .451 TEZ Barnes sabotless with no sizing lubed wad 69gr of IMR4198 and Win209. I have not tried the duplex loads as the IMR4198 straight has worked so well.

[giannid]

Well, I got the savage to the 100 yard yesterday and say I was impressed with the new barrel. I adjusted the sizing die so the bullets had about 15 pounds of loading pressure with a clean bore and they tightened up quite a bit when the barrel got fouled. They are a little tight to load now but I'm sticking with this size. I tried 5 different loads and they all shot 3 bullets touching at 100 yards. The heaviest load was 60 grains of h4198 over 10 grains of vv110 and that's what I think I'm going to stick with as I'm hoping to get it to shoot well out to 300 yards and I'm sure the extra velocity can help. Is there any reason to pick a lighter load since they all shot accurately? Or should I see what they do at 200 yards and pick from there. They shot so well at 100 yards I'm not sure 200 will matter.

[cuda]

I forgot to mention that I do not clean my barrels just the Breech plugs. They seem to shoot better dirty. So try shooting say 30 rounds with out cleaning then try cleaning after a few shot and see what you gun likes.