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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 19, 2015 17:24:17 GMT -5
This weekend was a bust for shooting. I nearly missed my wife's birthday on Tuesday (I narrowly escaped having to fly to Louisiana and back that night) and got home late so we celebrated it yesterday instead. When I got home from Raleigh yesterday there was a long cardboard box in plain view leaning against the wall next to my front door. It was a barreled action which is the subject of this thread. Today has been raining so I didn't shoot the bullets I have been making. Instead I prepped food (one of her birthday resolutions was to go back to a pretty strict Paleo diet) and loaded .223 Rem ammo for an upcoming DMR match. She just left for a friend's baby shower so I decided to wade into this new rifle journey. Like most other builds, this has been in the works for a while. I lucked into the Pierce Precision action a while back and then shortly after the McMillan:  The Pierce action is a purpose built, single-shot, meant to be a muzzle-loader. It has no hole drilled for the plunger ejector so that your priming modules don't go sailing when you take it out of battery:  I posted those pictures when I first got them but I'll recap. The action and bolt are 4340CM steel. The receiver, recoil lug, and scope rail were coated in Graphite Black Cerakote. Normally, they just coat the cocking piece, shroud, and bolt handle but since they knew this was going to be a muzzle-loader they also asked if I wanted the bolt head coated in the event I ever shot subs. I opted to have them do it. When it showed up they had also coated the valleys of the flutes in black but the bolt body was still in the white due to tight tolerances. The McMillan is an A3 that someone ordered inlet for a 700SA single-shot with Krieger HV channel and an ADJ LOP kit. Then they cancelled their order. That worked out well for me as it was almost exactly what I wanted. This is the LOP kit I used in the thread about making and ADJ LOP Tacti-Cool stock; I still need to bed and paint that one. With action and stock in hand I called Jeff Hankins to commission a barrel job. Jeff, his goatee, and reputation here are the inspiration for the rifle's name (just as the Green Beanie was a punny dedication to its metal smith). In November he ordered my Brux barrel: custom contour, .450/.458, 1-18" tiwst. The barrel showed up around the first of March and I had the barreled action by the end of the month. That is when I posted these teasers:    I didn't mention it at the time but am going to now because if you mess with custom guns long enough you will have an issue. Twice in the past I have had issues I couldn't get resolved; one was incorrect headspace and improper bedding, the other was broken bottom metal, and both involved Hill Country Rifle Company. I wanted to mention this because when I noticed an issue with the gun Jeff immediately offered to pay shipping both directions and fix the issue which was a timing issue with the brake. The brake was about 5° past 12 o'clock, which, with a side port brake is noticeable:  About a week later I got it back with a nicely timed break:  Jeff also trimmed the powder funnel to fit the slightly shortened brake and trimmed and blended the thread protector for the muzzle:   You know how when you get a new truck, you just have to grit your teeth and go drive it through something that will scratch it so you can stop worrying about it? Rifles are the same way. Somewhere, somehow, someone alleviated me of the due diligence of banging this one up. Anywhere there is a hard line the Cerakote it buggered up: Bottom of the receiver  Recoil Lug  Scope rail over ejection port got smacked good  Top rear of receiver above where your cam for primary extraction occurs  Bolt shroud   Bolt Handle  And scratches on the barrel to round it all out  Stock work is part of any rifle. I bed them all before I shoot any of them. It doesn't matter where your stock comes from, there is a slim chance it will be one hundred percent ready to drop in. For example, this McMillan would have flexed quite a lot had I not bedded it: Inletting black shows only points of contact  I haven't attempted to use inletting black on this stock yet as I have not had time. Initial inspection of this stock though shows there is some work to be done. The barrel must be floated as it will barely allows a piece of paper to drag along between the barrel and channel. I also discovered it has pillars in it already that McMillan installed during manufacture. They are not straight though. Top of pillars showing where I scraped away paint  Stock leveled  Action sitting crooked when tightened down in pillared stock  No matter what the reputation or cost, nothing is ever good to go until it has been checked and tested. These pillars will have to be cut out before I can bed the stock. Luckily, Jeff cut me a pair of pillars I had measured prior to discovering this already had pillars in it. As soon as I get a chance I will post the fitting of the barreled action to the stock and the pillar bedding process. Hopefully, I will be shooting this this one in a couple of weeks with the new bullets. |
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Post by rambler on Apr 19, 2015 17:35:23 GMT -5
Looking good. As far as the very, very minor imperfections, I think there's nothing worse than going into someone's house that has been surgically cleaned to hospital standards and feeling so out of my comfort zone I wanna bolt out the door. Same is with a gun or any tool....they are made to work and function for their intended purpose...at least that's what I think  You got it going on Keith. |
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 19, 2015 18:04:46 GMT -5
The marred Cerakote is not the end of the world. Guns are like hammers and eventually it would get scratches. Now I can just use it. That's why I use ceramic metal finishes and painted fiberglass stocks. Blued steel and walnut don't have much of a place in my tool shed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 18:49:05 GMT -5
Keith, when kash and I were at pierce they were talking about a pain in the butt that wanted the flutes to be cerokoted but not the rest of the bolt. Never would have guessed it was you! Haha small world. No actually I think you already had your action at that point and this guy wanted two colors on the bolt or something to that nature.
Depending on if that brake was 24 or 32tpi you're talking .00057" or .00043" off of the desired mark. Timing tactical brakes to be removed for muzzleloading is tough even with a DRO. On a cartridge gun you can let them fall 10* short and torque them on to be perfect. Being over the mark make it a harder correction for sure. Was the material taken off the brake or the barrel to correct the timing?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 18:54:16 GMT -5
I could care less about a few scratches but I would want to be the one that put them on my guns. How did the port get buggered up? Shipping?
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 19, 2015 19:03:21 GMT -5
How did the port get buggered up? Shipping? Not sure. The package was not destroyed but did have a "soft spot" in it. It's also the 1913 rail over the port that got mashed. |
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Post by Richard on Apr 19, 2015 19:12:32 GMT -5
Everything looks like it is coming together just fine................That would be my one Bit_ _h with ANY type of coating put on the surface of the metal or the stock.................It can get scratched. I saw a Boyd's stock that had been clear coated and the first thought that came to mind was..................It WILL get scratched. The best coating jobs on metal parts WILL get scratched. I have some pretty fancy graphic painted bench rest stocks and as careful as I am, they will/do get scratched.
Richard
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Post by Dave W on Apr 19, 2015 19:20:53 GMT -5
Different strokes for different folks but that is unacceptable work to me. I accepted that kind of shoddy work once from a builder, it will not happen again.
Always enjoy your posts, very informative, keep them coming.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 19, 2015 20:06:11 GMT -5
Rich,
I understand that coatings get scratched. It's just a matter of how they get there. My melonite pistols have scratches from daily carry and tactical matches. My work guns have scratches and displaced metal from hard use. I use ceramics and paint because it is easily repairable. I do scratch Cerakote from time to time on my match rifles (not so much on my hunting guns) and don't particularly care, they are tools. It is still the toughest coating I have used.
The only thing that actually bothers me is that the rail got hit hard enough somehow to displace metal. The damaged floor plate I mentioned earlier was dropped at HCRC and it sheared off. I had a custom Doc White English Sporting Rifle get destroyed by UPS; the stock was deeply gouged under the hammer behind the lock and the entire stock had to be refinished because of the stain and varnish. I'm not complaining about cosmetics.
I am not saying who is to blame, I don't know. I don't think Jeff would have shipped it had he believed he had damaged anything based on the fact he immediately stood behind his work and took care of my issue with the brake. I posted the pics mainly to let everyone know they need to look over anything they receive. I once had in instructor tell me, "you can't expect what you don't inspect."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 21:26:20 GMT -5
good looking rig and Im sure it will be VERY nice when its finished. I have seen my fair share of dings and scratches as well. when I do them its, O well, guess I will either fix or live with it. when it belongs to someone else it gets fixed..
Yes I too enjoy your posts, it takes a lot of time to take pics and explain things...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 22:10:10 GMT -5
Great tutorial/story!
Thanks for sharing 7mmfreak!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 3:19:27 GMT -5
Nice write up as always, that'll be a fine rig when you get it completed.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 20, 2015 3:20:25 GMT -5
It's 4AM and I'm on my first cup of coffee so I hope this doesn't come across wrong. This thread is not a firestarter and I'm not upset. If I'm upset at all is with USPS right now for mashing on a box that is stamped fragile and leaving a high value insured item on my porch. I normally have to go sign for them when I miss a delivery.
Everything I do gets a detailed write up; the good, the bad, the ugly. If you look at some of my stock work is not perfect but there are pictures anyway. Cerakote is tough but not perfect. I expect it's going to wear. My bullets are still ugly and I've said as much.
I think Jeff is a craftsman and he's been a stand up dude who's been flexible as he's worked around my requests. The metal work had clean lines and seems well fit and tight. He came into this board like a storm but he has a good product and dealing with him in person may change your perspective if you are still hanging onto old emotions. If I thought the dude was a hack that shipped me a spray painted pipe bomb I would have named the gun Bridge Troll instead.
Right now I have bowl of Jeff-O mix. Give me a minute to put it in the little cups, put it in the fridge to set, and turn it into Jeff-O shots so this can turn into a party where everyone is having a good time.
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Post by schunter on Apr 20, 2015 7:05:01 GMT -5
Thanks for a very detailed report. Cant wait to see the finished product. Is it possible the scope base is bent?
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Post by deadeye on Apr 20, 2015 7:51:27 GMT -5
we learned on the screw on brakes to set them initially @ approx. 11"53-11"55 am. if 12 noon is level .after a dozen or so times on & off they would set in to approx. perfect level.
this was experience here with a couple of good local smith's. its very painstakingly/tedious work & hard to get exact as I have watched. it probably depends somewhat on the length & size of the threads but I will leave the smiths to educate on this.
hankins does very fine work & my experience's mirrors 7mmfreak. I would not hesitate to get more work from hankins.
I am never into the groupie thing & stand alone & call it like it is.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 20, 2015 8:58:55 GMT -5
Thanks for a very detailed report. Cant wait to see the finished product. Is it possible the scope base is bent? A pair of cross test levels say it isn't. It just got whacked in transit is my guess. Like deadeye said, break timing can be more or less critical depending on thread pitch. They do wear in also so they need to be set slightly short of perfect and will time up in short order. The long and short of this is that, if you remember your fairy tales, Billy Goats Gruff was a win for the goats. Jeff has built a winner in my book. If I do a good job bedding it the thing it will shoot and be a gun I'm proud of. As for Cerakote, it is ideally done when all fitting is complete or it runs the risk of getting scuffed. I consider Chad Dixon at Long Rifles, Inc. to be the pinnacle precision rifle builder. Chad will tell you that during final fitting of a bedding job your finish will get ruined if it is already coated and he will charge you to re-coat it. So, if my assessment of the state of my finish comes across as harsh that was not my intention. I'm just showing you what can happen to a finish in the course of other work and transit. I was aware of the risk. Jeff had even said that he would prefer it was not coated but it came that way from Pierce. I think we are doing Jeff a disservice if we dwell on this. My apologies to Jeff if I've made it look like his work is less than stellar. I would work with him again, no questions asked. I'll never be a pro gun writer because I don't have the super slick writing skills to make everyone happy. The guys that work for me would characterize me as tough but fair. I feel like I'm doing both here. |
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Post by rambler on Apr 20, 2015 10:31:27 GMT -5
Thanks for a very detailed report. Cant wait to see the finished product. Is it possible the scope base is bent? A pair of cross test levels say it isn't. It just got whacked in transit is my guess. Like deadeye said, break timing can be more or less critical depending on thread pitch. They do wear in also so they need to be set slightly short of perfect and will time up in short order. The long and short of this is that, if you remember your fairy tales, Billy Goats Gruff was a win for the goats. Jeff has built a winner in my book. If I do a good job bedding it the thing it will shoot and be a gun I'm proud of. As for Cerakote, it is ideally done when all fitting is complete or it runs the risk of getting scuffed. I consider Chad Dixon at Long Rifles, Inc. to be the pinnacle precision rifle builder. Chad will tell you that during final fitting of a bedding job your finish will get ruined if it is already coated and he will charge you to re-coat it. So, if my assessment of the state of my finish comes across as harsh that was not my intention. I'm just showing you what can happen to a finish in the course of other work and transit. I was aware of the risk. Jeff had even said that he would prefer it was not coated but it came that way from Pierce. I think we are doing Jeff a disservice if we dwell on this. My apologies to Jeff if I've made it look like his work is less than stellar. I would work with him again, no questions asked. I'll never be a pro gun writer because I don't have the super slick writing skills to make everyone happy. The guys that work for me would characterize me as tough but fair. I feel like I'm doing both here.
Obviously the work on this gun is excellent and definitely no fairytale
It ought to be a shooter and hopefully a "minister of death"
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Post by schunter on Apr 20, 2015 11:20:31 GMT -5
Thanks for a very detailed report. Cant wait to see the finished product. Is it possible the scope base is bent? A pair of cross test levels say it isn't. It just got whacked in transit is my guess. Like deadeye said, break timing can be more or less critical depending on thread pitch. They do wear in also so they need to be set slightly short of perfect and will time up in short order. The long and short of this is that, if you remember your fairy tales, Billy Goats Gruff was a win for the goats. Jeff has built a winner in my book. If I do a good job bedding it the thing it will shoot and be a gun I'm proud of. As for Cerakote, it is ideally done when all fitting is complete or it runs the risk of getting scuffed. I consider Chad Dixon at Long Rifles, Inc. to be the pinnacle precision rifle builder. Chad will tell you that during final fitting of a bedding job your finish will get ruined if it is already coated and he will charge you to re-coat it. So, if my assessment of the state of my finish comes across as harsh that was not my intention. I'm just showing you what can happen to a finish in the course of other work and transit. I was aware of the risk. Jeff had even said that he would prefer it was not coated but it came that way from Pierce. I think we are doing Jeff a disservice if we dwell on this. My apologies to Jeff if I've made it look like his work is less than stellar. I would work with him again, no questions asked. I'll never be a pro gun writer because I don't have the super slick writing skills to make everyone happy. The guys that work for me would characterize me as tough but fair. I feel like I'm doing both here. One of my friends had a rifle built by Chad Dixon last year and it is a work of art! I in no way meant to imply anything about Jeff's workmanship. Scott |
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Post by hankinsrfls on Apr 21, 2015 11:32:48 GMT -5
Well guys, Its 11.48 AM and I am on my second pot of coffee, waiting on come duracoat to dry on a stock I just sprayed and thought I would comment on the thread.
First I will start with the brake., for you who have install a brake before and know what it takes to get one to tighten up exactly where you want it know that it is not an easy task. It gets even harder as you go with finer threads as there is less room for error. A 32 TPI brake makes a complete revolution for every .032 of linear movement. This means that if you are off by .001 the brake will be 11.25 degrees out of time. Plus, the difference between how much torque I apply to tighten it and how much torque someone else uses to apply it can and will cause it to time in a different spot. Personally I do not like tactical brakes, especially for SML's or when you plan on removing it every often, It just opens up a Murphy's Law..... (What can go wrong, will)
Moving on to the Picatinny rail...It was not damaged in shipping as I noticed the small ding in it when I removed it from the action when I did the barrel install. I don't know if it was like that or if it got dinged while at my shop, but I have offered to replace it for Keith if he wants me to and I will take the damaged one, repair it and use it on my next build...
As for the wear marks on the Cerakote, Keith and I talked about this briefly when he told me the action was already coated. I did inform him that it would get some minor scratches on it and that would be expected. Cerakote is probably the toughest coating out there, but it still will get scratched. It is still only a paint... The mark on the extractor cam is from where I worked the bolt back and forth several times wearing in the bolt bore raceway and opening and closing the bolt. That cam area is designed to come in contact with the cam built into the bolt handle, these two contact points forces a pull against the shell casing (in a center fire) to brake loose the casing inside the chamber and it also cocks the firing pin back in place for the next shot. This is a wear point on most center fire bolt action rifles, not as noticeable on a blue or stainless action but paint one and see if it don't wear at that spot.
You can see one mark on the left side of the cocking piece raceway, this little ding is from the cocking piece itself and is cause when closing the bolt, the tolerance at this location is very close and if the cocking piece is to one side or the other it will make a little mark there.
The bottom of the recoil lug got scuffed while I was holding it down against my wooden work bench and repeatedly cycled the bolt to wear in the race way from the cerakote build up.. These custom action have practically no clearance so when the cerakote is applied it takes some work to get the bolt to cycle smoothly again.. Not that noticeable on a Remington 700 when there is usually .004 to .005 clearance..
As for the other minor scratches, I can only say, I was a careful with Keith's custom action as I could be, slight of using felt gloves I handled it with care. All my work benches are wood, I have rubber mats on my floors and I keep a clean work area, however, things can get scratched and dinged sometimes......
Keith and I have talked, He is not an unhappy camper, he just does a very thorough inspection of each and every piece, nothing wrong with that, I do the same thing...
All is good,, Thanks Jeff Hankins.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 20:55:51 GMT -5
Different strokes for different folks but that is unacceptable work to me. I accepted that kind of shoddy work once from a builder, it will not happen again. Always enjoy your posts, very informative, keep them coming. Couldn't agree more with what Dave says, I've been there and done that, never again, and I did find the video clip that once was, to be some funny "non threatening" humor. |
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Post by hankinsrfls on Apr 22, 2015 0:20:14 GMT -5
As a professional builder I strive to meet and exceed customers expectations. I'm not going to say that in all my years I have not had to do some rework but it is very far and few between.. I will say this,, from now on out I will not work on an action that has been coated prior to barrel work, as we all know it is impossible to man handle the action and not put some scuffs in the paint.. I was upfront and honest with Keith and informed him this would happen. From here on out I will have to charge the customer for a re-finish on all actions that are painted. Blued actions and stainless actions you don't have to worry so much about... Some only look at the bad things in life, others look for the good things... Personally I like the good things,,
Jeff Hankins.
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