nsb
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Posts: 77
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Post by nsb on Apr 16, 2015 8:07:25 GMT -5
I finally got to take my re-barreled Savage ML2 out to try out. It has a new McGowan 45cal barrel on it. I've had the gun for around ten years or so and shot it quite a bit as a 50cal but always wanted a little more accuracy out of it and the idea of sabot-less shooting appealed to me. After getting the gun back, I checked the breech plug to make sure it was tight and headed out to my range to shoot it. I only ended up firing five shots and quit. At each shot the bolt became increasingly more difficult to open and close. Also, each shot was walking up the target. I pulled the bolt out and checked the breech plug. It was quite loose. When I tried to tighten it back up, there was little or no resistance to the threads engaging. It felt like the threads were way too loose. When it got to the end it was like hitting a wall. Has anyone see anything like this before? All I can think of to do is try some Teflon tape to see if that will tighten up the engagement of the breech plug to the barrel threads. Do I use antisieze with Teflon? If so, does it go on top of the tape or under it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
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Post by onecardchuck on Apr 16, 2015 10:05:07 GMT -5
nsb,
Yes the savage breech plug when you are screwing in the threads of the barrel is quite loose and you can wiggle it back and forth. So yes to the teflon tape I would use either yellow or pink which are heavier duty than the white. One wrap should do it. No you do not need to use anti-seize with the teflon tape so clean up is much easier. The wall you speak of is the savage breech plug shoulder mating to the barrel wall and it is very important to keep this area very clean and smooth on both the barrel and the breech plug for a good seal.
Hope this helps,
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Post by Richard on Apr 16, 2015 10:40:16 GMT -5
I am glad Chuck backed up my suggestion also.
Richard
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nsb
Forkhorn
Posts: 77
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Post by nsb on Apr 16, 2015 12:36:31 GMT -5
Thanks to both of you. I wasn't sure if I had to use antisieze with the tape or not. I just got it on the plug and back in the gun. It feels "normal" now when I screwed it in. I'll get it out again this weekend and see what it will do.
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Post by epanzella on Apr 16, 2015 19:07:31 GMT -5
Someone bored and threaded the new 45 cal barrel for a Savage plug for you, right? Why should it be a sloppy fit? It seems to me it's particularly important for a good BP fit in a Savage ML2 as there are no locking lugs on the bolt like a centerfire conversion. A tightened plug that loosens up in five shots seems scary to me.
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nsb
Forkhorn
Posts: 77
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Post by nsb on Apr 17, 2015 8:04:56 GMT -5
Well, this begs the question: is the barrel defective? Being able to make it work and getting what you paid for are two different things. Has anyone else seen this loose plug situation? If it's a defect, I'd rather take care of the problem now rather than trying to argue about it later.
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Post by onecardchuck on Apr 17, 2015 9:11:31 GMT -5
The wiggle room so to speak is probably not a defect. It is more prevalent with a savage plug versus Luke's new plug. The reason is the savage plug is not threaded all the way down the breech plug like Luke's plug is. So the feel when screwing in Luke's plug with no teflon tape has a lot less wiggle because the plug is threaded the entire length, but with this plug there is still some wiggle because the threads are not a perfect fit. Then when you apply the teflon tape to Luke's plug most all the wiggle is gone. With the savage plug and the smooth front end there is a gap between it and the barrel. Creating more wiggle as you screw the plug in, and then add the treads are not perfectly sized and the plug wiggles less but still wiggles until it hits the barrel wall. When you apply teflon tape to the savage plug threads the wiggle will reduce but is still there.
If you want to do a test to prove this you can wrap teflon tape on the smooth front end of the savage plug and the threads and when you put it in the wiggle will be greatly reduced. Many members on the board do this anyway because it helps fill the air gap between the plug and the barrel for the smooth section of the plug, which in turn helps reduce gas cutting by not giving the pressure form the load an air pocket to travel into.
This is not saying that one plug is any better than the other but more so pointing out the differences as the savage plug has been a great main stay for quite some time and once you know the in's and out's of using it you will see it is a great plug. The most important thing at the end of the day is not the wiggle when putting in the plug but when the plug hits the wall and with a good crank it locks in there and stays in place.
Hope this helps,
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Post by hemicuda on Apr 17, 2015 9:54:20 GMT -5
If it was my gun I would make a new plug to fit right. It probably needs to be oversized .010 or so. Then you would be happy. Loose threads are just plain loose, you can't correct them.
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nsb
Forkhorn
Posts: 77
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Post by nsb on Apr 17, 2015 18:37:16 GMT -5
If it was my gun I would make a new plug to fit right. It probably needs to be oversized .010 or so. Then you would be happy. Loose threads are just plain loose, you can't correct them. I retired as a quality engineer and I supervised two metrology labs at one time. I know for a fact there are go/nogo gages for threads. Making a frankenstein plug to fit out of spec threads isn't a good answer. If this is a normal condition (it wasn't for ten years and four different breech plugs) I'll use it as such. If the barrel threads are out of spec., that's a different story. I'd think that the barrel would have been checked before shipment. I'm just looking for some feedback on whether or not the barrel may be out of spec or not. |
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Post by jeff on Apr 17, 2015 18:43:56 GMT -5
Whey did barrel originate?
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Apr 17, 2015 18:46:27 GMT -5
If you can't get them to correct the issue and it has the meat in the shank to spare, spin it off and have it cut down two inches and threaded for Luke's new plug. Shouldn't have any worries after that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 18:57:08 GMT -5
I'm betting it's not any looser than all of our mcgowens or Pacnors are. Without tape they all feel very sloppy. The hole may be bored for a class 3 fit and a h3 tap used to cut the threads but I am unsure of what the savage plugs are spec'd at for major and pitch diameter. Never thought to inspect one, they just work usually.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 20:20:20 GMT -5
I'm betting it's not any looser than all of our mcgowens or Pacnors are. Without tape they all feel very sloppy. The hole may be bored for a class 3 fit and a h3 tap used to cut the threads but I am unsure of what the savage plugs are spec'd at for major and pitch diameter. Never thought to inspect one, they just work usually. +1 |
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Post by Richard on Apr 17, 2015 20:43:32 GMT -5
John.................go and shoot it with the teflon tape...............I have been doing it for quite a few years now with zero problem.
Remember, Luke's plug is strictly a custom deal. It is not Savage's! We have never heard of a Savage plug being blown back out. I got involved in these SML's back in 2007 and have used ONLY Savage plugs in original Savage barrels plus Pac-Nors and McGowan's. They do feel loose without the Teflon tape on them.
Richard
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Post by epanzella on Apr 17, 2015 22:04:42 GMT -5
The OP said that after tightening the plug it was loose after 5 shots. There is no way that the barrel and plug are both in spec. There is about an inch of threads on a savage plug and there should be very little play by the time most of the thread is in the barrel. The tape is a bandaid, pure and simple. I hope it's not a dangerous one. Both my sons have Savage 50's and neither has ever used tape or had a plug loosen. My 45 McSavage plug has some play when it's only screwed in a quarter inch but by the time it's threads are fully in the barrel there's no play even though it still has a ways to go before it hits the shoulder. I'm not against using tape to help seal the threads but it shouldn't be required to keep the plug from backing out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 23:16:59 GMT -5
Teflon tape will fix the problem. Once applied to the plug threads chase it in with your fingernail. So easy a caveman can do it.
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Post by edge on Apr 18, 2015 6:17:55 GMT -5
SNIP. It felt like the threads were way too loose. When it got to the end it was like hitting a wall. SNIP. IMO, the BP was not tight when you started. You seem shocked by this "hitting a wall" which if you had screwed it in tight to begin with you would have noticed it then  I would use some lube or tape and go shoot it, if it loosens up again then you either did not tighten it enough or there may be a problem somewhere. If you headspace too tight and are jammed into the bolt the camming action may tend to loosen the BP on a fired primer. edge. |
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nsb
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Post by nsb on Apr 20, 2015 12:57:13 GMT -5
First, the plug was tight when I took it out to shoot. I checked it when I got it back from the rework. I've had the gun for ten years and have shot hundreds and hundreds of shots out of it. It's not new to me and neither is the breech plug. I put two winds on yellow teflon tape on it yesterday and it still spins in somewhat easily but I can now feel some engagement between the threads. I'll take it out this coming weekend and give it a try.
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