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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 14, 2015 18:12:08 GMT -5
SEATING CORESCore seating die and core seating punch: The two flat punches and the ogive shaped punch: Place a degreased lead core in a jacket, place the pair in the die, and press them home: Core seated and shaped like the ogive:
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Apr 14, 2015 18:31:44 GMT -5
This is like a suspense movie. Great thread. My question is how does the copper form over the ogice without "krinkling"?
I am sure we will find out
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Post by jims on Apr 14, 2015 18:50:22 GMT -5
A great deal of time and equipment involved and expense for you. Keep the photos coming.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 19:13:52 GMT -5
This is some good stuff man!!!
Thank you for posting it!!
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Post by Richard on Apr 14, 2015 19:41:15 GMT -5
Wilms................If you ever looked closely at the ogive on a hollow point bullet.............such as a very pointed one you will see vertical lines running up to the point. This is where the copper jacket get folded and forced into the "point up" die. Some are so fine they are barely noticeable. Richard
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 21:08:21 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing this cool process..!
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Post by Jon on Apr 15, 2015 1:52:54 GMT -5
Very interesting and informative. Thank you for posting.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 15, 2015 16:52:16 GMT -5
POINTINGThe pointing die and punch are installed. As the pointing requires quite a lot of compression and the backing out the die a little helps with leverage (I point a bullet in 5 strokes as I work the die down). The bullets are placed base up and pressed into the die: The bullet is ejected from the bullet die by a bit of large gauge spring wire: Finished bullet (this one 335gn) at .458:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 17:24:03 GMT -5
Very cool process 7mm, have you done enough to know how much time you have in each bullet yet?
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Post by rob67 on Apr 15, 2015 17:28:08 GMT -5
Keith thanks for sharing this. More to making a bullet than I imagined. Now you have a great looking bullet. Keep up the good work.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 15, 2015 17:33:56 GMT -5
Very cool process 7mm, have you done enough to know how much time you have in each bullet yet? No, I don't know yet. I timed how long it took to make 600 jackets the other day. Right now I'm just making small batches to test. Once I iron out a good bullet weight (this weekend if the rain will quit) I intend to make a run of test bullets to mail out. At that point I will know how long it takes to make one as I will time individual operations through completion. Pointing takes the most time so far; a hydraulic press would make it much faster and may be a worthwhile purchase in a year or two. Right now I have to press, turn the die down, rinse and repeat until completely formed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 17:36:18 GMT -5
What's the Over All Length of the 335 grain bullet? Thanks
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 15, 2015 17:51:45 GMT -5
What's the Over All Length of the 335 grain bullet? Thanks 1.235" so it will work in as slow as 1-24 @ 2500fps
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 18:29:27 GMT -5
What's the Over All Length of the 335 grain bullet? Thanks 1.235" so it will work in as slow as 1-24 @ 2500fps NICE!!
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Post by rambler on Apr 15, 2015 18:41:38 GMT -5
This is getting good!
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Post by Richard on Apr 15, 2015 18:42:26 GMT -5
Keith................just curious? That picture of the finished bullet you are holding..............I notice the tip looks "scalloped?" Is that what the finished meplat is supposed to look like? I understand they do not come out 100% even but that one looks exceptionally uneven and open. Will the point on the finished bullets be closed more? The sharper the point the less those scallops would come into play as far as BC. In the bench rest game, some are trimming the meplat (with a special tool/fixture and then using a "Widden's" die to create a sharper point. Not criticizing, just an observation. Richard
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Post by markb317 on Apr 15, 2015 18:46:18 GMT -5
Thanks for posting all of this for us. You are making some nice bullets. Hope to be able to try some when you can start filling orders ( your going to be busy).
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 15, 2015 19:34:02 GMT -5
Keith................just curious? That picture of the finished bullet you are holding..............I notice the tip looks "scalloped?" Is that what the finished meplat is supposed to look like? I understand they do not come out 100% even but that one looks exceptionally uneven and open. Will the point on the finished bullets be closed more? The sharper the point the less those scallops would come into play as far as BC. In the bench rest game, some are trimming the meplat (with a special tool/fixture and then using a "Widden's" die to create a sharper point. Not criticizing, just an observation. Richard It is very slightly scalloped. If it is any more open the ejection wire will bypass the open tip and stick in the core. I am communicating with the die maker about this and the possibility of a smaller tip bur right now I am stuck with a meplat that measures .140". The meplat is about .10% larger than what you are used to seeing on a small bore bullet (ratio of meplat diameter to bullet diameter). Right now my solution is to uniform them (will require a custom bushing in a Wilson trimmer because Whidden doesn't make anything that will work). I don't currently intend to buy a Whidden style pointing die. I understand it will improve BC some but I want the open tip for hydraulic expansion on game. I understand it won't be as aerodynamic as a Parker MH but I may take Edge up on the offer for a small run of turned poly tips to play with. If they offer a significant advantage at a reasonable price point I will consider buy a die for seating them. Right now, I'm not sure I can make them work with what I have. My main concern is good precision at a reasonable price and better BC than anything except the Parker MH. Maybe a poly tip will allow me to have all three but we'll see. Normally, precision bullets are like good AR-10s: you want accuracy, reliability, and reasonable cost. In reality, you pick two.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 15, 2015 19:51:47 GMT -5
The one on the right is the most "perfect" looking meplat: open, uniform, and clean. The one on the left is the pointier of the two but more scalloped and requires some uniforming. So far (at short range) they shoot equally well.
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Post by schunter on Apr 16, 2015 10:46:55 GMT -5
Very impressed Keith! Great job and thanks for sharing the entire process....
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Post by rangeball on Apr 16, 2015 10:59:28 GMT -5
Any idea yet what price point these will be at?
Are you still doing a tapered jacket?
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 16, 2015 12:21:22 GMT -5
Any idea yet what price point these will be at? Are you still doing a tapered jacket? I'm going to shoot these this weekend, if the rain will quit, and verify what works best in my gun. I will then finish a run of 500 bullets to figure out total time involved so I can determine a price. Then those 500 will go out to board members for testing. The bullets do have a tapered jacket but I have been shooting them using the same die seeing I use for Parkers with resultant seating pressure being nearly identical.
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Post by Richard on Apr 16, 2015 19:04:09 GMT -5
Keep up the good work Keith. I know its a learning process and takes some time to get all the "wrinkles" ironed out! Richard
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Post by rangeball on Apr 17, 2015 8:42:33 GMT -5
Thanks Keith.
What does the jacket thickness start at and what does it taper to? Do you plan to do any expansion testing?
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 17, 2015 11:57:39 GMT -5
Thanks Keith. What does the jacket thickness start at and what does it taper to? Do you plan to do any expansion testing? 1) The jacket is .030" at the base and tapers to .019" at the nose. 2) Yes, I will do expansion testing with this first run of bullets or soon after. Ballistic gelatin and moulds are several hundred dollars but I will get it done as soon as I can.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Apr 17, 2015 12:07:02 GMT -5
Keith..
I will test some of them for you this fall. I will use in-expensive doe heads.... LOL.....
All joking aside,, You can build yourself a cheap box from plywood. All sides closed except the front. Make the box as big as you want but long enough to stop the bullet. Line the box with a heavy duty garbage bag and fill it full of wet (really wet) news papers. This will simulate the flesh of an animal.. Or get you real close..
Just an idea for you to try....
Thanks Jeff..... Looking forward to some of those bullets..
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Post by rangeball on Apr 17, 2015 12:11:09 GMT -5
Thanks Keith. What does the jacket thickness start at and what does it taper to? Do you plan to do any expansion testing? 1) The jacket is .030" at the base and tapers to .019" at the nose. 2) Yes, I will do expansion testing with this first run of bullets or soon after. Ballistic gelatin and moulds are several hundred dollars but I will get it done as soon as I can. That sounds great.
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Post by bigmoose on Apr 17, 2015 17:34:45 GMT -5
Once again I'm very impressed with the work you gents can do Keith I hope you have great success with your bullets and have all the big companies running to you to market your product.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Apr 18, 2015 6:55:24 GMT -5
Today should be the last day of testing bullets before I do the first run of 500. Weather looks like it is going to hold out through the afternoon. The range faces southeast so I prefer to shoot in the evenings, plus this time of year there is almost zero wind the last two hours of daylight. Bullet drawn to .452 then full formed for my .451" rifle:
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Post by hankinsrfls on Apr 18, 2015 7:07:53 GMT -5
Bullet looks good... I'm sure it will shoot good also..
Jeff Hankins..
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