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Post by baranx4 on Apr 1, 2015 15:46:22 GMT -5
I have a rem 700 ml that I plan to build in the future. Was wondering what kind of muzzle velocities an h&r can handle? Luckily I am not really recoil sensative. Basically should I just wait to build my rem ml or get my feet wet in the smokeless world with a h&r?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 15:54:07 GMT -5
If you convert the H&R just realize they are limited to loads that are far from heavy. They will kill deer just as dead as any other but you are looking at around 60gr of h4198 and a 200gr bullet, generally still saboted.
If you want light and fast bullets the H&R will be fine. If you're set to shoot heavy bullets and fast velocities, pinch your pennies until you can make a play on your 700ml.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 16:30:56 GMT -5
I have a rem 700 ml that I plan to build in the future. Was wondering what kind of muzzle velocities an h&r can handle? Luckily I am not really recoil sensative. Basically should I just wait to build my rem ml or get my feet wet in the smokeless world with a h&r? First what's your idea of a heavy load some people idea are different than others, ex 300-327 grain bullets going 3000 fps or faster. others are 250 grain bullets going 3000 fps or faster. What Myers said has allot of truth to it however I think if you shot 250 grain bullets with the right powder charge you'll be fine. What you need to do is look in the pressure trace area and stay around 40k-43k pressure abs you should be fine. I shot and still do the 250 FTX out of my optima elite 45-70 slufoot conversion using 10/50 4759/4198 and I felt I was okay. Shot my first mule deer with that load. Look at the pressure trace and stay around 40k you'll be fine. IMO
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Post by edge on Apr 1, 2015 16:53:39 GMT -5
The powder will dictate the pressure, not the velocity. If you duplex and use something like 3031 or 4895 you can get plenty of velocity without high pressure. On the other hand if you want to use N110 and shoot a 300 grain bullet at 3k then you will have high pressure.
Generally the larger the volume of powder to reach the same velocity will result in lower pressure.
edge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 17:01:08 GMT -5
Yes, pressure and burn rate are connected. I still wouldn't tell you to go ahead and build the H&R and shoot a 310apb with 95gr imr3031. Might not shoot your eye out but your brains will be ripped in 20min or less!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 17:04:40 GMT -5
Gotta watch them scope mount holes in them hingers also.
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Post by rambler on Apr 1, 2015 17:06:55 GMT -5
If it were me doing it again and I wasn't recoil sensitive I'd hold out and get a good bolt gun put together with your 700ml, you can always shoot light loads or some of the heavier ones as well and still be safe.
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Post by edge on Apr 1, 2015 18:21:38 GMT -5
Good points to myers and rambler.
A good carry gun without a brake will as they say kills on one end and maims on the other!!
A good carry gun is rarely a beanfield gun also.
My Handi Rifle is like a shotgun, always at the ready, but my 45 Savage at 13+ pounds is on my shoulder until I get where I am going and is no way a snap shot rifle. If I kick up a buck and I have my Savage yes it is at the ready but only for short periods and if need be the Hadi can get out there if I do my part.
BUT, in all reality the Savage shoots a 200 grain bullet with a 0.520 BC at over 3k and the Handi shoots a 250 grain brick at 2300 fps.
edge.
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Post by baranx4 on Apr 1, 2015 18:46:33 GMT -5
I was thinking the h&r could progress to be my son's gun in a few years. He's 10 right now.
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Post by edge on Apr 1, 2015 18:58:00 GMT -5
You can shoot light or up to your tolerance for pain if you choose your loads wisely.
It is light enough to carry all day or to be used by a youngster with light loads. I think they have a short LOP stock that would be great for a kid as long as you watched out for the scope eye relief.
edge.
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Post by rambler on Apr 1, 2015 19:03:28 GMT -5
I think sw had some nice low recoil loads worked up on an earlier post
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Post by baranx4 on Apr 1, 2015 19:09:06 GMT -5
You can shoot light or up to your tolerance for pain if you choose your loads wisely. It is light enough to carry all day or to be used by a youngster with light loads. I think they have a short LOP stock that would be great for a kid as long as you watched out for the scope eye relief. edge. already He's almost 5 foot and outgrew his rossi trifecta already. But that is a good point. He shoots my 6.5x 284 norma with a break and will probably out shoot me in a few yrs.
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Post by southarkrob on Apr 1, 2015 20:42:17 GMT -5
I have had Savages and H&R's and even an encore SML.. all we are running now are NEF Handis.. Sold a nice Savage to make my dad a light weight hunting rifle. I have had Slufoot convert roughly 8 or 9 (and have 2 more heading out in the morning) handis and all of them shoot under an inch group at 100 yds with 56 gr H4198 and a 200 gr SST or 195 gr Barnes in a light blue sabot.. I shot a 130 lb doe in Jan with this load and a Barnes bullet.. she never wiggled. That was at 150 yds. I think we get too tied up in velocity and muzzle energy.. these conversions make great no hassle hunting rifles and do an exceptional job at it. The Savage was my dads and it shot great.. but was a pain for him to tote to the stand (he is 70) and he wanted something lighter.
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Apr 1, 2015 21:17:52 GMT -5
I think Rob is right in what he's trying to convey.
These rifles (H&R, Encore, CVA etc.) aren't Savages/Rem conversions and in my mind we shouldn't try to make them perform like something they are not.
If you take them for what they are: awesome light weight, accurate, quick handling, plenty good from 0 to 250 yard(or more), dream to carry deer hammers; you will fall in love with them.
They aren't meant to compete with a custom barreled "big" gun. If you keep that in mind you will never regret having one done and you will stay on the safe side of it's limitations.
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Post by kennacl55 on Apr 1, 2015 21:18:46 GMT -5
I have been shooting a H&R ultra (slufoot conversion) using IMR or H4198 with great accuracy to 250yds. I also shoot a duplex load of 10/50 4759-4198 and the 195gr barnes bullet in a light blue sabot. If you dont want to shoot duplex loads just use IMR or H4198 by itself. My velocities are close to 2600fps and recoil is not bad at all. If you go the H&R route I suggest you send Slufoot, a PM and he will tell you what needs to done. I really like mine (Thanks Slufoot).
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Post by baranx4 on Apr 1, 2015 21:41:48 GMT -5
I am looking for a ml that I can use one sight to 200 yards
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Apr 1, 2015 21:48:35 GMT -5
I am looking for a ml that I can use one sight to 200 yards The Handi will do that easily.
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Post by jbm77 on Apr 1, 2015 21:59:37 GMT -5
I am getting ready to convert a handi rifle soon. Picked it up from gun shop today. I live in Illinois so legally can't shoot the .40 cal bullets in a sabot. Is anyone out there shooting sabotless in an H&R. I am thinkng the 240 gun XTP mag or 225 FTX?
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Post by cr500afx on Apr 1, 2015 22:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by cr500afx on Apr 1, 2015 22:49:25 GMT -5
Also, if you are truly concerned with the scope mount holes drilled into the barrel, then it might be a good idea to use an Arrowhead plug due to it's reduced diameter. JMHO
If you zero at ~170 yards, the shot will be 1.75 inches high at 100 yards and 1.75 inches low at 200. That gets you slightly less than a 4 inch point blank range out to 200 yards.
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Post by 10ga on Apr 2, 2015 9:46:59 GMT -5
I think Rob is right in what he's trying to convey. These rifles (H&R, Encore, CVA etc.) aren't Savages/Rem conversions and in my mind we shouldn't try to make them perform like something they are not. If you take them for what they are: awesome light weight, accurate, quick handling, plenty good from 0 to 250 yard(or more), dream to carry deer hammers; you will fall in love with them. They aren't meant to compete with a custom barreled "big" gun. If you keep that in mind you will never regret having one done and you will stay on the safe side of it's limitations. X2
And yes 200 with one sight easy. No need for BDC and such. Point/shoot out to 200. Love my Encore conversion. 10 ga
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Post by pposey on Apr 5, 2015 8:32:48 GMT -5
I think Rob is right in what he's trying to convey. These rifles (H&R, Encore, CVA etc.) aren't Savages/Rem conversions and in my mind we shouldn't try to make them perform like something they are not. If you take them for what they are: awesome light weight, accurate, quick handling, plenty good from 0 to 250 yard(or more), dream to carry deer hammers; you will fall in love with them. They aren't meant to compete with a custom barreled "big" gun. If you keep that in mind you will never regret having one done and you will stay on the safe side of it's limitations. Agreed, Never met a deer that a 45-70 conversion could not drip with ease
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