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Post by epanzella on Mar 27, 2015 17:08:54 GMT -5
Took my Savage 45 to the range for the first time today. The gun is functionally complete with bedding and pillars but I didn't blue the barrel or apply finish to the stock yet. It has a factory Savage plug with a headspace bushing under a Federal 209A primer. Shot OK with mild recoil but couldn't get MOA out of it. The center group measured .710 but was only a 50 yard sighter. I couldn't get 4198 to save my soul but my son had a pound of Reloader 7 so I went with that. All loads were 57.0 gr RL7. All loads used 40 cal bullets in a 458 bore. I'm gonna try to attach pictures.
200gr XTP HARVESTER BLUE SABOT
1. 2386 2. 2376 3. 2449 GRP SIZE 1.25" (bottom right) 1. 2364 2. 2389 3. 2382 GRP SIZE 2.15" (top right) 1. 2362 2. 2269 3. xxxx GRP SIZE 2.6 " (center bottom)
200gr SST HARVESTER BLUE SABOT
1. 2409 2. 2325 3. 2226 GRP SIZE 2.6" (bottom left)
200gr SST MMP TAN SABOT
1. 2436 2. 2406 3. 2489 GRP SIZE 3.04" (top left)
200gr XTP MMP TAN SABOT
1. 2341 2. 2331 3. 2335 GRP SIZE 3.1" (top center)
i1382.photobucket.com/albums/a
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 17:24:36 GMT -5
RL7 is a good powder when you're shooting sabots. Raise it a grain or so until you find your spot...I used to get moa with 62gns with either RL7 or H4198.... Very similar in speed grain for grain..Good luck Zen
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Post by epanzella on Mar 27, 2015 17:44:55 GMT -5
RL7 is a good powder when you're shooting sabots. Raise it a grain or so until you find your spot...I used to get moa with 62gns with either RL7 or H4198.... Very similar in speed grain for grain..Good luck Zen First time out so I wanted to keep it mild. I had 2 sabots and 2 bullets so I kept the powder the same and tried all 4 possible combinations of bullet and sabot. I'll be inching up the powder like you suggest next time at the range. I have to prepare my powder charges at home but I can see where it would be a big advantage to have a portable scale at the range. Thanks for the help. Ed P
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Post by mrbuck on Mar 27, 2015 17:58:11 GMT -5
Sharp looking rifle ! Chris
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Post by rlp10ml on Mar 27, 2015 18:05:22 GMT -5
I am using RL7 @ 71 grains with a 195 Barnes and Harvester Light Blue Sabot and CCI 209M Primer.It shoots right at 2800 fps.My gun is a 25" RemPac but my Buddy has a 25" SavPac and is using the same load with his and has the same results.Great looking gun by the way!
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Post by epanzella on Mar 27, 2015 18:42:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the comps, guys. Rip 10 you're really pouring the coal to that puppy. 2800fps with a 195 gr slug is 300 win Mag territory. I had no idea a sabot could stand up to that kinda velocity. Gives me something to shoot for, pun intended.
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Post by Mid_Tn_Plowboy on Mar 27, 2015 19:12:08 GMT -5
I use the 200sst with blue harvester and 59gr H4198. Sub MOA at around 2760fps from a 28" tube. You'll find a sweet spot if you work up slowly.
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Post by Richard on Mar 27, 2015 19:49:43 GMT -5
He is just coasting at 2800! My 23" Sav/Pac went above 3100 with sabots with duplex loads.
Yes, it is a sharp looking rifle and by all means should be a good shooter. It takes some time to develop the right load. Six or seven years ago if you had a .50 Savage you would be very happy with some of those groups. BTW, what kind of glass do you have on the rifle? Don't scrimp on the quality of the scope. You don't have to spend a fortune.........there are many scopes that will work well under 3 to 400 $$$$. From the picture it looks like you might have High rings? and maybe enough space to drop to mediums? With hard (er) kicking rifles, the lower the scope the better. Richard
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Post by epanzella on Mar 27, 2015 20:15:13 GMT -5
He is just coasting at 2800! My 23" Sav/Pac went above 3100 with sabots with duplex loads. Yes, it is a sharp looking rifle and by all means should be a good shooter. It takes some time to develop the right load. Six or seven years ago if you had a .50 Savage you would be very happy with some of those groups. BTW, what kind of glass do you have on the rifle? Don't scrimp on the quality of the scope. You don't have to spend a fortune.........there are many scopes that will work well under 3 to 400 $$$$. From the picture it looks like you might have High rings? and maybe enough space to drop to mediums? With hard (er) kicking rifles, the lower the scope the better. Richard I have Nikon Monark 2.5 x 10 x 50 scopes on three of my rifles. Luv 'em to death. The high rings are to make room for my big mitts. It's still a tight squeeze getting those 209's in there. So far the gun kicks like a puppy but that'll change, of course, as I ramp up the loads. I don't need uber velocity. My goal is a tree inch group at 200yds with a max mid range trajectory of tree inches. I'm guessing 2600fps will be pretty close if I can dial in a bit more accuracy. Thanks. Ed P
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 20:16:31 GMT -5
Looks like a great starting point. I know people who use reloaders 7 with out any issues. Looks like your running a Nikon monarch I think that is a pretty decent scope and at least your not using a BSA. Only thing like Richard said I'd try lowering the scope but if it fits you and your comfortable I'd leave it, IMO. Good luck
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 21:11:01 GMT -5
Nice work, you'll get there. I'd maybe put a light knurl on the bullets and creep the powder up a grain at a time til ya hit the honey hole. Beauty of a rig...
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Post by onebentarrow on Mar 28, 2015 8:04:24 GMT -5
Learned some thing new. Did not know u could push 2800/3000 fps with sabots. What kind of felt recoil with these speeds. How much would a break lower this felt recoil. Also not very computer savy so would some one tell me how to save this thread so I can pull it up in the future. All I have is an iPhone. Thanks
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Post by Mid_Tn_Plowboy on Mar 28, 2015 9:21:42 GMT -5
Not sure how well a brake would work with sabots?
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Post by epanzella on Mar 28, 2015 9:42:39 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of brakes. I'd rather deal with recoil than getting my ears boxed by a horrendous muzzle blast while hunting without hearing protection.
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Post by Mid_Tn_Plowboy on Mar 28, 2015 10:02:04 GMT -5
Recoil isnt bad from my gun (11#) with the .40 cal bullets. I shot 10 300hp .458's yesterday in the 2700+ fps range from a bipod and rear bag and shoulders a lil touchy. I got spoiled with the light weights Lol. I didnt go with a brake mostly because of the noise but I wasnt and still aint sure if the brake would interrupt the release of the bullet or if you would be able to see any difference in accuracy??
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Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 28, 2015 10:32:28 GMT -5
My WAG is you will see an accuracy improvement starting around 60gr of Re7 with the 200gr sabot loads. My SavPac 45 settled in at 63gr of Re7. Its a very comfortable load to shoot too.
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Post by epanzella on Mar 28, 2015 10:57:08 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help, guys. I'm getting .7 moa @ 50yds and 2.5 moa @ 100yds. That tells me these bullets are not being stabilized as much as they should be. It seems you guys all got stability at higher velocities than what I'm shooting so a ramp up is in order. I'll jump to 60gr RL7 and inch it up a grain at a time from there. Thanks, Ed P
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Post by Richard on Mar 28, 2015 11:39:03 GMT -5
I had run some tests using the brake and then without the brake. The un-braked groups were somewhat better than with the brake............It been a while but maybe in the area of 1.5 with and 1.0 without? Still minute of deer! Richard
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Mar 28, 2015 12:11:27 GMT -5
My groups with the 200SST and Harvester LB went from 2 inches to .9 after a light knurl. Load was 61gr. Reloader7. The knurling worked for me, and I did just enough for it to grab the sabot.
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Post by epanzella on Mar 28, 2015 13:20:10 GMT -5
My groups with the 200SST and Harvester LB went from 2 inches to .9 after a light knurl. Load was 61gr. Reloader7. The knurling worked for me, and I did just enough for it to grab the sabot. I thought about knurling but was concerned about the sabot hanging up on a knurled slug. Did you use 2 files or a tool? Do you get any unexplained flyers? Thanks, Ed P
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Mar 28, 2015 13:31:58 GMT -5
My groups with the 200SST and Harvester LB went from 2 inches to .9 after a light knurl. Load was 61gr. Reloader7. The knurling worked for me, and I did just enough for it to grab the sabot. I thought about knurling but was concerned about the sabot hanging up on a knurled slug. Did you use 2 files or a tool? Do you get any unexplained flyers? Thanks, Ed P Two files. One mounted to a piece of 2x4 and the other epoxied to a wood plane handle. I would like to get a tool, but this works well for now. Fliers have decreased dramatically, but still have one now and then depending on temperature, just the nature of sabots. Don
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Post by Jon on Mar 28, 2015 13:39:34 GMT -5
Someone please come up with a reasonable knurling tool. I don't like using files.
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Post by Mid_Tn_Plowboy on Mar 28, 2015 14:28:22 GMT -5
Its hard to make the knurls size uniform from front to back on bearing surface with files but it still works. I just knurl too .401 at most because my barrel is really tight.
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Post by Dave W on Mar 28, 2015 16:46:41 GMT -5
Sweet looking gun!
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Post by jims on Mar 29, 2015 7:24:18 GMT -5
To epanzella: Actually some feel the knurl on the bullet let it engage better on the same and promote better purchase/grab on the barrel land and grooves which promote better stability of the bullet. Just repeating but it does make some sense to me.
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Post by jims on Mar 29, 2015 7:27:23 GMT -5
jon: I remember that a couple members gave photos of some knurling devices they made to promote uniformity. As I recall three knurling wheels with a crank design and pressure arm to increase pressure as needed. Nobody was selling them but pictured how it was done.
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Post by Jon on Mar 29, 2015 7:36:08 GMT -5
jims. Thank you I saw the pictures but most needed some welding. I still have 4 welding machines but am unable to use them. A couple of years ago making one would have been a piece of cake not so anymore.
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Post by madcityhoosier on Mar 29, 2015 14:18:04 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help, guys. I'm getting .7 moa @ 50yds and 2.5 moa @ 100yds. That tells me these bullets are not being stabilized as much as they should be. It seems you guys all got stability at higher velocities than what I'm shooting so a ramp up is in order. I'll jump to 60gr RL7 and inch it up a grain at a time from there. Thanks, Ed P
Your groups are telling me that you have not found an accuracy node for your bullet/barrel combination yet. For me, there's a sweet spot right around 2820fps when shooting the 200sst in light blue harvesters. I've shot lots of the 200sst in my .458 and when I was shooting RL7, my favorite load was a duplex of 10/56 (VV N110 / RL7). That got me around 2815fps and one inch groups at 200 yards.
As for the knurling, I just use one file and a soft pine board. File on top, bullet, and the board on the bottom. I'm pushing down really hard on the file, but I just roll one complete revolution. All I'm trying to do is cut some sharp lines in the bullet jacket to help it grab the interior of the sabot.
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picks
8 Pointer
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Post by picks on Mar 29, 2015 16:53:01 GMT -5
I was at the range yesterday with two of my .45. We were shooting 65gr rl7 and get 2650fps and .7" groups all day long. My hunting load is 10gr 4759 and 60rl7. That gets me right at 3000. The recoils is not bad at all. My 13 year old shoots it with no probs at all. He shot 2 at our gong at 385 yards and put them 2.5" apart, a little luck maybe but these guns will shoot when u find your sweet spot.
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Post by epanzella on Mar 29, 2015 19:16:43 GMT -5
I've started working on a bullet knurling tool that will have a hard stop for repeatable sizing. I'll try to put some time aside to finish it this week. Ed P
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