|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 18, 2015 19:38:08 GMT -5
In my recent post concerning my new Shilen barrel I made a complaint about tightness down near the point the bullet seats. This is NOT tightness from the barrel.................The barrel, when you push a properly sized bullet down the clean bore, the pressure is the same from muzzle to breech......so not the barrels fault. My old PN barrel was quite loose for the final 3 or 4 inches before the bullet would seat so I never experienced the problem...........jut the reverse! What I think I am feeling is the results of powder fouling just ahead of where the bullet seats. I get the bullet sized to go down the muzzle end of the barrel OK (3/4 of way down) and then I encounter this resistance............UNLESS, I under size the bullet to start with? So my question is: How many shooters with good even bores have experienced this situation? I know Jeff had already responded that he experienced the same thing. So if he has and I have, how many other get the same feeling when seating and if so, how do you deal with bullet sizing?..................The good tight fit at the powder is great for ignition.  Richard |
|
|
|
Post by jims on Mar 18, 2015 20:01:07 GMT -5
I have had a couple of barrels that were a fair amount tighter at the muzzle than the breech, especially so with one past Krieger ML barrel. Just the opposite of what you have. I cannot say I ever have had any issue to the degree you have.
I do not know if you could remove the barrel and from the breech end JB or use rubbing compound to just open up enough distance where the problem is. Now one might do this on one's own barrel but if it is for a build that might not be an alternative.
Probably not a problem if one shot sabbotted but for full form and land riders I understand the difficulty presented.
|
|
|
|
Post by shooter on Mar 18, 2015 20:07:26 GMT -5
Richard,I size my bullets to a fouled barrel richard have u tryed dry patching in between shot to see if that helps?
|
|
|
|
Post by rambler on Mar 18, 2015 20:48:37 GMT -5
My barrel (Douglas 45 cal) does this also. After good and fouled it gets tight about 2 or 3 inches from the breech. I size bullets to a one hand push and then it turns into a mild two hand the rest of the way. It's always done that and I just figured it was additional fouling just ahead of the breech area.
|
|
|
|
Post by bestill on Mar 18, 2015 20:57:16 GMT -5
I will agree with ramblers findings .
I personally think out of 4 Douglas barrels after around100 shots they got much better and seemed much better. Maybe shilen will react same way
|
|
|
|
Post by airborneike on Mar 18, 2015 21:23:03 GMT -5
Rich,
With the latest Brux barrels, I have found that I could get 8 or 9 shots before the fouling began to play into the seating pressure. This using 275 BE landriders un-sized and started with a firm whop.
When the loading pressure began to rise, the velocity changed a small amount up. I just kept a cleaning rod handy and run a couple of not real wet patches through the bore and everything went back to fairly even loading pressure. Don't know how the accuracy was afected was shooting just for function.
Still think a little Danzak with fullform or even landriders might help but have been too busy (lazy) to try it.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by jeff on Mar 18, 2015 21:28:52 GMT -5
My barrel (Douglas 45 cal) does this also. After good and fouled it gets tight about 2 or 3 inches from the breech. I size bullets to a one hand push and then it turns into a mild two hand the rest of the way. It's always done that and I just figured it was additional fouling just ahead of the breech area. that is where I was on day 2, 1 hand till the last two inches then 2 hands. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 22:00:36 GMT -5
yes I have had the same problem on some barrels while others don't seem to react the same way. don't know why or what the reason is.
the last few Brux seem to stay consistent even after fouling??
have you tried a lubed wool wad? I found on some barrels with fouling issues they helped keep the fouling loosened up but don't like to use them If I don't have to. my concern is lube leeching into the powder charge when in the barrel over an extended period but it might be worth a try..
|
|
|
|
Post by gar on Mar 19, 2015 8:23:46 GMT -5
I have light loading pressure all the way down, very consistent, but, I use lubed wads always.
|
|
|
|
Post by rangeball on Mar 19, 2015 8:37:44 GMT -5
My pacnor is like this also. I FF for low resistance then they seat firmly on the powder. I toyed around in my head with a few ideas of creating something that could be run down the bore that actually also cleaned the rifling after each shot with a scraping action, more so than just a dry patch, but never got around to making something.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jon on Mar 19, 2015 9:00:11 GMT -5
rangeball I think some one makes a scraper cleaner I just can't remember who I'll keep looking if I find it I'll let you know?
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 19, 2015 11:13:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. One day I'm commenting that my bore is loose near the powder charge and the next, with a new Shilen I'm B----in' its too tight! The thought had entered my mind to run a patch down to alleviate it but hate getting back into the cleaning thing..............I did that with the .50 and it was a PIA! The sound of lubed wads might be a solution as does the Danzak or Moly? My only thought with the coated bullets is the fact the fouling will still be there? Is there enough "slick" on the bullet to over ride the fouling? I may try just the dry patch next week and see what the results are. I don't have any lubed wads (maybe Herman has some?  Frank?) (his real name is Frank but the board knows him as Herman  Richard |
|
|
|
Post by jims on Mar 19, 2015 12:11:41 GMT -5
I have seen a photo of the scraper device that Jon mentioned. Always scared me a bit but as I recall it was made out of brass so it might not cause any bore damage but I always thought it might be a lot of work, an extra step etc.
I have one barrel that shoots one bullet very well out of a clean barrel unsized but is hard to seat when dirty. I did not want to clean after every shot so I was able to find another bullet (unsized) that shoots well on the fouled barrel.
Richard, I hope your solution is as easy as a lubed wad. Keep us posted. It will make for interesting reading.
|
|
|
|
Post by ateam on Mar 19, 2015 14:00:48 GMT -5
I had the same issue (tight breech area) when I shot sabots with BP and subs. I tried the ceramic bore coat product, and it worked great. I think it slicks things up enough to let the projectile push the fouling out of the way. Never tried it on a sml but it might be worth a shot.
|
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Mar 19, 2015 17:38:09 GMT -5
I had the same issue (tight breech area) when I shot sabots with BP and subs. I tried the ceramic bore coat product, and it worked great. I think it slicks things up enough to let the projectile push the fouling out of the way. Did the ceramic bore coat product keep the dreaded T7 crud ring from forming? |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 19, 2015 21:57:06 GMT -5
The thing is, getting it too slick "might" reduce the ability to get the bullet fattened up and grabbing the rifling? I will go the dry patch first.
Richard
|
|
|
|
Post by ateam on Mar 20, 2015 8:45:42 GMT -5
I had the same issue (tight breech area) when I shot sabots with BP and subs. I tried the ceramic bore coat product, and it worked great. I think it slicks things up enough to let the projectile push the fouling out of the way. Did the ceramic bore coat product keep the dreaded T7 crud ring from forming? The crud ring still seemed to form but did not make seating pressure progressively harder as it had previously. I never shot the type of volume Richard does though and have no idea how the ceramic would hold up. Honestly I don't shoot my smokers much at all any more, or my bolt guns, or my gas guns. Why is smokeless so addicting? |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 20, 2015 14:21:03 GMT -5
Getting off the subject but I would say: Speed, very little clean up, accuracy and versatility of loadings and bullet selection.
Richard
|
|
|
|
Post by Jed Hankis on Mar 20, 2015 21:02:08 GMT -5
if the bullet is too tight dont we just need to tighten the die a little bit to compensate?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 5:31:06 GMT -5
if the bullet is too tight dont we just need to tighten the die a little bit to compensate? Bingo!!! Thats what I did with my die and it worked. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 7:52:51 GMT -5
if the bullet is too tight dont we just need to tighten the die a little bit to compensate? Bingo!!! Thats what I did with my die and it worked. But...those smaller bullets will be too small on a clean barrel.... I'm thinking two different sized bullets ..one for clean one for fouled....or swab between shots.....what other options are there..?
|
|
|
|
Post by rambler on Mar 21, 2015 7:56:54 GMT -5
Bingo!!! Thats what I did with my die and it worked. But...those smaller bullets will be too small on a clean barrel.... I'm thinking two different sized bullets ..one for clean one for fouled....or swab between shots.....what other options are there..?
Foul the barrel a little is what I do after cleaning. Mine shoots better fouled and I size my bullets accordingly. Shooting a looser bullet won't hurt anything to get the barrel ready. |
|
|
|
Post by gar on Mar 21, 2015 8:07:10 GMT -5
The other day I shot the 270 EMAX and the first shot on a clean barrel was a drop down with the ramrod and using a lubed wad. Gun ignited fine but POI was an inch low. Second shot slight push to get it down the barrel and POI an inch high. The following shots were on POA and loaded just fine, so by the third shot everything was as it should be and no difference in loading pressure after the first two fouling shots. Shot a total of fifteen rounds and stayed consistent.
|
|
|
|
Post by kash913 on Mar 21, 2015 9:58:29 GMT -5
My gun love to be fouled I shoot FF I only clean my barrel after 20-50 shots. The only time it's hard to load first one down the pipe after setting a week or so!
|
|
|
|
Post by Jed Hankis on Mar 21, 2015 13:20:18 GMT -5
I don't ever take a clean gun, no matter if a shotty or rifle to the woods clean. I'd hate to have that buck of a lifetime standing across the holler and not be sure of my poi
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 21, 2015 22:30:18 GMT -5
If I size the bullet smaller it will go down the first 2/3's of the barrel very loose and be fine once at the powder charge. As long as it fattens up enough to keep grabbing the rifling as it moves out the barrel? That would be my only question?
This is all part of the learning curve with something new..........whether its a camera, gun, car, smart phone etc.
Richard
|
|
|
|
Post by jims on Mar 22, 2015 7:35:24 GMT -5
Richard, with your fast powder initial boosters and your normal choice of bullets (no all coppers) I would think it would do just that. I have a .40 that RB built that I swear is too loose all the way even with heavy knurling ( it will almost fall down the entire way on its own) and it shoots remarkably well and I have never had an ignition problem with it. Now it has his BP and this is generally with 200 SSTs.
You like to experiment with different loads etc. That will provide us with interesting reading.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave W on Mar 22, 2015 9:14:22 GMT -5
Richard, the 300 SST\FTX shot more consistent in my Shilen with a very loose fit, maybe two finger seating resistance. I only shot it with N110 and RD/H4198 and N110/H322.
No misfires down into the teens with the duplexes, but I was using a shorter plug also. If it misfires I would swap to the .040 bushing.
|
|
|
|
Post by elkman1310 on Mar 22, 2015 13:26:32 GMT -5
It seems no two barrels are the same. I have Douglas and know several Shilens. There always seems to be a sizing issue not matter what. I size my bullets to fit snug but not pound down by any means. Both my barrels seat easier after I starting shooting them then when they are cold. Bullet jacket thickness and material of the bullet really come into play when sizing to fit the bore.
That's what makes muzzleloaders some much fun.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 22, 2015 18:31:18 GMT -5
I am with you Elkman! Probably looser is the way to go but I will give dry swabbing a try Tuesday and if Herman has any lubed wads,. I may try them also.
Richard
|
|
Frank?) (his real name is Frank but the board knows him as Herman 
