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Post by muznut on Mar 18, 2015 7:20:01 GMT -5
I wanted to see if anyone is using the faster powders such as 4759, 5744 or v110 in the .040 bushing plug and how its working ?
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Post by muznut on Mar 18, 2015 7:47:39 GMT -5
I know ignition will be great, I was talking about accuracy.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 18, 2015 8:51:37 GMT -5
5 gns red dot under 65 gn H4198 .434 shot group. 100 yds drop
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Post by rangeball on Mar 18, 2015 9:10:12 GMT -5
5 gns red dot under 65 gn H4198 .434 shot group. 100 yds drop Drop that's with a .040 bushing? Did you shoot this same duplex with a .030, or did you have to adjust the primer down? What was the accuracy difference between the two bushings if it was the same load? No issues with primer bulging with the larger bushing? Curious as I had planned to use a duplex with the 310gr APB but had a .040 bushing installed and was warned not to use the duplex as pressure would be too great.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 18, 2015 11:58:06 GMT -5
That was with a 275gn MH. First couple outings were with a .30 bushing. And a 25" barrel and accuracy was identical. Then I had problems and had the barrel shortened to 23 1/4" and changed to the Arrowhead plug with a .40 bushing. And shot .434. Primers looked perfect.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 18, 2015 11:59:32 GMT -5
Oops
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Post by rambler on Mar 18, 2015 12:23:23 GMT -5
Did you let your cat out
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 18, 2015 15:10:09 GMT -5
Double posted
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Post by rangeball on Mar 18, 2015 15:14:35 GMT -5
That was with a 275gn MH. First couple outings were with a .30 bushing. And a 25" barrel and accuracy was identical. Then I had problems and had the barrel shortened to 23 1/4" and changed to the Arrowhead plug with a .40 bushing. And shot .434. Primers looked perfect. Thanks a bunch. By any chance did you chrono the different bushings?
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 18, 2015 16:39:01 GMT -5
Nope
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Post by muznut on Mar 21, 2015 8:29:47 GMT -5
Is this all the board can come up with? I'm asking for considering what size bushing for my next build?
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Post by rambler on Mar 21, 2015 8:40:14 GMT -5
I would get 2 or 3 BP's with different sized bushings for the different powder/s and bullets you might be shooting.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 9:07:59 GMT -5
Is this all the board can come up with? I'm asking for considering what size bushing for my next build? I use .030 bushing plugs in two 45's and two 40's. I've never had an ignition problem and accuracy is always great so I see no reason to switch. I shoot duplex loads out of these guns with the powders you have mentioned and have also shot straight powder loads, no problems.. A couple of new builds I'm having done will use .040 plugs, but they are sub calibers that I plan to burn lots of slow powder out of, that's the reason for the switch in bushings. IMO it all depends on what your build plans and goals are on the bushing you should use. .030 plugs have always seemed to work very well in 40's and 45's, especially when duplexing.
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Post by jims on Mar 21, 2015 9:15:11 GMT -5
I thought .030, .035 and .040 bushings were available. They are not terribly expensive. You could get a couple of sizes and try in your own gun to know for sure if you already have a bushing plug. Several contributors on this site offer the same in one fashion or another. Just a thought although I realize if someone had some real world experience with the .040 and can post that it would save you the hassle of testing and expense. I may be wrong but I thought the .040 was primarily for sure fire ignition in certain applications and had little to do or affect with accuracy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 9:32:15 GMT -5
Muznut if you read and understand the board you already know that the fast powders aren't going to damage a primer with a .040". It's the large loads of slow powders, a little more info than you have would be nice if you want such a definitive answer. My guess is your next build isn't going to be hard on the shoulder or components if those powders will be used as mains.
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Post by muznut on Mar 21, 2015 10:21:20 GMT -5
Myers; I do understand what I read, problem is Dougs isn't my whole life and if I said I read 10% of the boards new threads in the last year I would be lying. I am building a few 45cals and primer damage is not my concern its accuracy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 10:26:07 GMT -5
Ok, you will never experience accuracy issues due to too good of ignition.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 21, 2015 11:02:30 GMT -5
Again all I can contribute is about 35 shots with the .40 with a 5gn red dot 65gn duplex. And ALL primers were perfect...but the bushing did crack....cant say ther is anything to blame ...sometimes it just happens...it. still shoots extremely good. Accuracy..... but its fonna get swapped out drop
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 13:08:29 GMT -5
are these the bushing things that cost 50.00? you got 35 shots and it cracked wow. is it that booster that made it cracked?
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 21, 2015 13:11:53 GMT -5
No known reason why it cracked.....sometimes things just happen. Wont deter me from another one drop
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Post by Jed Hankis on Mar 21, 2015 13:16:56 GMT -5
Is there a difference in tungsten from one supplier to the next?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 14:13:31 GMT -5
I've been running a .o4o bushing since last September. Probably over 100 shots from 4759, long shot, and green dot. I use mostly 4759 as a booster just started using long shot and green dot. My loads have been mainly 10/60 4759/4198. Mostly 250 grain bullets. I've shot probably 50 300 grain bullets from 2500-2900 fps. I have not seen my bushing crack and accuracy has been around moa or better @ 100 yards.
After a saw people reporting cracked bushings I decided to leave my bushing in place and never take it out to clean. I take breech plug out and clean flame channel and rifle just not the bushing. Figure as long as it's shooting in not messing with it and taking a chance with cracking the bushing.
I did try straight 4198 and 250 SST knurled up to .456 and then full formed and had a miss fire at 30° however I had taken the breech plug out and soaked it in degreaser the day before so I could of had moisture in the plug still that caused the miss fire. Won't be soaking it again.
As far as the faster boosters I don't feel 4759 or even long shot should be considered as a faster booster IMO. I'd look at clays, green dot, blue dot, and red dot as a booster. With that said I'd talk to Richard and Dave and see what they think about your question.
For a new build I'd go with a shillen and Luke's new plug and not look back. You can spend the extra money on Krieger and Brux barrels but with a little work the shillen and Luke's new plug will shot just as good as the Brux or Krieger and the deer won't know the difference. Unless your going out shooting competitions with your ml I wouldn't get to caught up in whose gun shoots better. They will all kill deer.
This board is going a different direction than what is started out as and I really think we should get back to the basics and just focus on reliable shooting deer killing machines!
Good luck
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Post by cowhunter on Mar 25, 2015 12:19:22 GMT -5
In a regular Rempac shooting 70 gr 4198 the .040 bushing plug with drilled out flame path works at least as well as the .030 plug and I don't worry as much about loading pressure. I loaned gun to friend for hunt but I sighted it in several times using several loads and mostly 310 gr APBs. I probably shot 15-20 shots. I would use .040.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 25, 2015 15:52:09 GMT -5
Muznut
Your decision to build on a Remington Ultimate using the HIS is a great choice.. You will never have any ignition problems from that day forward...
I originally was drilling my plugs at .041 but many people were concerned that the powder would fall through the hole (and it can let a grain or two through on occasions) so I now make all my plugs with a .035 hole to stop the powder from getting thought the plug.
Now it seams that most want to use the .040 hole because it allows for more fire and better ignition with the 209 primers. You will not need to worry about ignition problems with using the HIS and my .035 plugs,
If anyone is building on a center fire action they should use the HIS (Hankins Ignition System) it is a proven performer under all conditions and with what ever powder you want to use..
Thanks.. Jeff Hankins.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 16:50:04 GMT -5
Bahahahaha
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 17:05:09 GMT -5
Muznut Your decision to build on a Remington Ultimate using the HIS is a great choice.. You will never have any ignition problems from that day forward... I originally was drilling my plugs at .041 but many people were concerned that the powder would fall through the hole (and it can let a grain or two through on occasions) so I now make all my plugs with a .035 hole to stop the powder from getting thought the plug. Now it seams that most want to use the .040 hole because it allows for more fire and better ignition with the 209 primers. You will not need to worry about ignition problems with using the HIS and my .035 plugs, If anyone is building on a center fire action they should use the HIS (Hankins Ignition System) it is a proven performer under all conditions and with what ever powder you want to use.. Thanks.. Jeff Hankins. This is very interesting. You first show up on the board telling us about the ignition capabilities of your sealed LRM system with a .041" bushing. But the only powder you are using is IMR4198, which is a very fast burning powder that is easily ignited. So I did a series of tests with 209 M primers and .041" bushings. Not only did the my 209M primers do everything your LRM system with the old Savage plug they actually exceeded all of your ignition performances and velocities. I did those tests with powders from 4198 to 4831... Then one of your groupies brought up the fact that legal action should be brought up against me because I used a .041" bushing....which was supposedly your idea. That was cute. Several sealed ignition LRM owners (I won't say which one, I don't want to single any one out) have contacted me over the last year inquiring about slow velocities and ignition problems they are encountering with their sealed LRM systems. The one guy states right in his PM that his barrel in his LRM gun is 1 1/2" longer than my barrel on my 209 gun, and he has a .040" bushing and I have a .035" bushing in mine. And my 209 primer velocities are ~70 fps faster than his sealed LRM system. You guys have to remember, I've shot my 209 smokeless muzzle loaders with tungsten bushings from 1 hole .016" to 2 hole .041". I don't just shoot one type of powder, bullet and bushing size. deadeye recently posted some of his velocities with his sealed LRM system compared to my 209M Arrowhead plug and Stock Savage plug. Weren't his LRM velocities anywhere from 180 fps to 430 fps slower than my 209M velocities? And I know this is a small sample size, so anyone and everyone is invited to post your LRM and 209 load info. Jeff Hankins, I will agree that your system seals great, but that is the only thing that I agree with you on when it comes to the ignition capabilities of LRMs vs. 209s. Isn't that why you are coming out with a HIS 209 ignition system? OK, now I would like someone to post velocities of various powders and bullet weights that they have shot with their LRM system with a .035" bushing. Then we can compare them to 209 velocities with a .035" bushing.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 25, 2015 17:46:36 GMT -5
Earnhardt.
I don't know why you get so worked up when I talk about my system. It is proven its self in every test you guys have thrown at it and it proved itself at the first Challenge when five of my rifles took the top five places in an accuracy match. So for 70 fps difference you can keep your 209 primers.
I see no reason to shoot any other powder than 4198 when it produces match winning results time after time after time.
I have also tested powders from 4198 all the way to h50bmg with no ignition problems what so ever.
This is the first I've heard of someone wanting to bring you up on charges for using the .041 bushing. I can't control what others say or do.
If people are contacting you about problems with LRMP systems then they are contacting the wrong person, they should be contacting the maker, builder of it to try a find out what they are doing wrong and how to fix their problems. If its my system that's giving problems then they are doing something wrong, but I can't help them if they don't call me.
70 to 100 fps is chump change to me. You can't base those velocities on primer systems. Your chrony is attached to your barrel, directly in front of the muzzle, most others are 15 to 20 feet in front of their muzzle easily explaining 70 fps difference.
Again one type of powder and one bushing size and any good quality bullet is all most people want.. Most of these guys are hunters, not testers. They want a go to load that they know will perform every time. Most don't have a 500 yard range in their back yard and the time to shoot daily trying to figure out a load that works. They want a load that will kill deer without doubts.
Deadeyes velocities were with a chrony approx 20 feet in front of the muzzle. The only way to get true test numbers is to use the same chrony..
The only reason I am coming out with the HIS 209 is because there are people that still think the 209 primer is better, and there will always be people that think the 209 is better, I'm just not one of them. So if I can offer the 209 primer in my system and the LRMP in my system them I should be able to sell twice as many ignition systems... Kinda like take your pick. I'll have it covered.
I spent a day last week shooting my rifle with every powder you asked for. I plan on making a post with the results along with a video as soon as I can get it done.
Thanks Jeff Hankins..
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Post by jeff on Mar 25, 2015 18:19:24 GMT -5
Knowing more than some is great, being rude and more, discounts that. You have become quite the authority. I've been in this smokeless arena since 2001 along quite a few more on this board and a little goes along ways! jeff~
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Post by ping on Mar 25, 2015 18:26:51 GMT -5
Knowing more than some is great, being rude and more, discounts that. You have become quite the authority. I've been in this smokeless arena since 2001 along quite a few more on this board and a little goes along ways! jeff~ X a great big 2 on that one.. New kid on the block with a new toy and now he knows it all.. Ya right..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 18:34:46 GMT -5
Jeff could you please bend me over and rape me on that build you didn't even put together! $2500 get real! I'm not being rude, lying about your system just to sell it, now that's rude! Remember to come up for air
What I do know is that hillbill knows what he is doing, if he gets poofs, it gets my attention. Others just pat themselves on the back and ignore the issue. F it, bill probably messed something up.... YEAH RIGHT!!
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