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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 17:21:07 GMT -5
I'll move the primer debate over here.
No these are not baited questions, because I have not shot 4350, Hybrid 100 or IMR4831 with my LRM set-ups.
Have any of you guys with .45 LRM guns shot any slower powders?
ie. IMR3031, 4350s, Hybrid 100, IMR4831?...
if so, what were your results in velocity and primer ignition?
ES's?
Accuracy?
Are you shooting land riders or true full form bullets?
Can you guys go load up some IMR4831 for your .45 LRM gun and shoot a couple of rounds with a 327 MH? What is your velocity for barrel length and powder load?
I know some guys are shooting 3031 with their LRM guns. What type of velocity are you getting for barrel length?
Please post your results here.
Thanks
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Post by linebaugh on Mar 6, 2015 19:38:18 GMT -5
First off I am not advocating that anyone use LRM primers and I for sure am not interested in starting an argument. I respect most the guys on this board and Earnhardt specifically so don't take my post the wrong way.
I shoot 3031 in my rifle now and I have shot 100gr of retumbo as well just to see if it would ignite.
I have had consistent ignition with bullets that nearly fall down the barrel. I actually full form the .451 parkers usually after knurling but I have done it both ways. I have been shooting 275gr but I intend to go away from the sabotless and back to sabots.
I do have some match hunters and some BEs left, both 275gr, and I would be glad to try any load you would like me to test within reason and if I have the powder. My gun is built stout but I still have no use in shooting loads over the 50,000 mark so bear with me on that.
I THINK I was shooting 90gr of 3031 with the 275s and getting 2840 fps out of a 23" barrel. I apologize for not being more up to date on my numbers but I was/am anticipating moving on to a completely different set up... I was just trying to get through the season this past year.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 6, 2015 20:29:10 GMT -5
I've been shooting 350 grain bullets, full formed, from my 416 at 3250 fps using H4350 and a very large powder chamber.. Have had no problem igniting it and I use LRMP's in my ignition system. I did shoot a few loads of 4831 and Retumbo but don't have any data on it. I was just checking for ignition and I got it 100%..
Jeff Hankins...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 20:44:42 GMT -5
the primer debate will continue for some time to come, there is no doubt that the LMRP works great in the .45s as many can attest to. the smaller caliber samples are much smaller and with some mixed results. the only true way to know or to compare apples to apples is to use the same gun set up for both systems.
If I can talk Jeff into making up some modules for 209s and modifying his plug for them I can test both in the same rig (my .416 barrel) and do velocity/es and accuracy test samples from said barrel with both systems. this would pretty much give some solid data and compare apples to apples in the same gun.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 20:51:31 GMT -5
Sounds like a great idea, if it works call it progression, even if it's not the result initially anticipated.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 6, 2015 21:42:35 GMT -5
If I can talk Jeff into making up some modules for 209s and modifying his plug for them I can test both in the same rig (my .416 barrel) and do velocity/es and accuracy test samples from said barrel with both systems. this would pretty much give some solid data and compare apples to apples in the same gun. That's a good idea Bill.. I will try to do that and see what happens. It will be awhile though. I've got a lot of other projects to get done first... But I will keep it in mind for when I get caught up.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 21:56:51 GMT -5
sounds good Jeff, I will be talking to you about it..
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Post by Dave W on Mar 7, 2015 7:06:53 GMT -5
Are all the LRP guns that are having ignition and efficiency issues sporting the same ignition system?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 9:51:44 GMT -5
Are all the LRP guns that are having ignition and efficiency issues sporting the same ignition system? 2 diff gun makers. 4 guns from one. 1 gun from the other. |
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Post by Dave W on Mar 9, 2015 20:18:12 GMT -5
Nobody?
Gag Rule in effect for this thread?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 20:28:04 GMT -5
What I'm hearing is that LRM guys are using quicker powders to keep pressures up to aid in ignition and keeping velocities higher. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But nobody has shot a non-boosted load in a LRM gun with slow powders?
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Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 9, 2015 20:32:21 GMT -5
What I'm hearing is that LRM guys are using quicker powders to keep pressures up to aid in ignition and keeping velocities higher. And there's nothing wrong with that. But nobody has shot a non-boosted load in a LRM gun with slow powders?
What do you consider a slow powder and how much? I will shoot it from my 416... Jeff Hankins.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 20:49:33 GMT -5
In a 416
140 grains of Retumbo with a 375 grain bullet.
130 grains of H1000 with a 350 grain bullet
95 grains of H4350 with a 325 grain bullet.
Need to know barrel length also.
In a .45
90 grains of 3031 with a 300 or 310 grain bullet
115 grains of H4350 with a 300 or 325 grain bullet.
135 grains of IMR4831 with a 325 grain bullet.
Thanks
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Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 9, 2015 21:07:13 GMT -5
In a 416 140 grains of Retumbo with a 375 grain bullet. 130 grains of H1000 with a 350 grain bullet 95 grains of H4350 with a 325 grain bullet. Need to know barrel length also. In a .45 90 grains of 3031 with a 300 or 310 grain bullet 115 grains of H4350 with a 300 or 325 grain bullet. 135 grains of IMR4831 with a 325 grain bullet. Thanks I don't have any 375 gran bullets for the 416, the rest I got and I will shoot the 140 grain retumbo with a 350 grain bullet.
I will be able to do the 45 caliber loads you listed. I have those bullets and powders.
The barrel length on the 416 is 31 inches with a huge powder chamber and approx. 28 inches of rifling.
The 45 barrel is 28 inches with no powder chamber...
Weather permitting I will do the shooting this Sunday.
Thanks Jeff Hankins.
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Post by linebaugh on Mar 10, 2015 6:46:44 GMT -5
I don't understand what efficiency issues mean?
90gr of 3031 with a 275gr bullet is my go to load. I stated that above. Zero ignition issues so far in any weather and with some bullets that nearly fall down the barrel.
I have purposely left my rifle out in the cold portion of my shop overnight on some very cold days and fired it in the morning without issue.
Kind of some dead horse beating here as there are few who actually run LRP ignition anyway and those that do either have access to machines or use Jeff's system. 209 is the norm and should be based on what is available to the normal consumer. Simple as that.
I only have one gun in LRP ignition and the other is 209. The last gun I built for my father was 209... why? It's easy and available.
I'm not building anymore for myself and probably not for anyone else for that matter as I'm kind of over the smokeless bug, for now anyway. I still get on here because you guys are a good bunch and to keep tabs a bit but not nearly like I once did. I kind of wish I would have never answered the other thread but it kind of bothers me when I'm told how in-efficient my ignition system is compared to 209.
As stated above in my first post I will shoot any safe load if I have the supplies... in the name of science. Lol
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 6:52:05 GMT -5
Linebaugh have you recorded your speed with those loads in all temps? Sometimes it's hard to tell what is going on just by feel and if the gun goes off or not.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 7:16:54 GMT -5
I don't understand what efficiency issues mean? 90gr of 3031 with a 275gr bullet is my go to load. I stated that above. Zero ignition issues so far in any weather and with some bullets that nearly fall down the barrel. I have purposely left my rifle out in the cold portion of my shop overnight on some very cold days and fired it in the morning without issue. Kind of some dead horse beating here as there are few who actually run LRP ignition anyway and those that do either have access to machines or use Jeff's system. 209 is the norm and should be based on what is available to the normal consumer. Simple as that. I only have one gun in LRP ignition and the other is 209. The last gun I built for my father was 209... why? It's easy and available. I'm not building anymore for myself and probably not for anyone else for that matter as I'm kind of over the smokeless bug, for now anyway. I still get on here because you guys are a good bunch and to keep tabs a bit but not nearly like I once did. I kind of wish I would have never answered the other thread but it kind of bothers me when I'm told how in-efficient my ignition system is compared to 209. As stated above in my first post I will shoot any safe load if I have the supplies... in the name of science. Lol Linebaugh, 3031 in a .45, is actually an average speed powder. Depending on bullet weight. With a 325 or heavier bullet, it's a pretty fast powder. 4198 is a very fast powder in a .45. Just as 4350 is a very fast powder in a .416. The PMs I'm getting are in regards low velocities and misfires with slow powders in the LRM guns. I'm not getting any PMs in regards to fast or average speed powders in a LRM gun. It's very easy to ignite an average to fast burning powder in a 209 or LRM gun, no matter the caliber. With 4350 being a fast powder in a .416 Quickloads gives the following data for a load posted above: .416 31" barrel 350 grain bullet 125 grains of H4350 ~ 68,500 psi 3132 fps, his posted velocity was 3250 fps |
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Post by linebaugh on Mar 10, 2015 7:50:34 GMT -5
I don't have any of the powders you list. I am fairly certain I have some Retumbo or possibly H1000 on hand. I also do not have any jacketed 45 bullets that are not 275gr.
I need to pull my plug anyway to take a peek at it. I'm off the next 2 days so if you would like to find me a 50,000psi quickload for a .45 with a 275gr bullet and retumbo I would give it a go and report back on velocity.
Beyond that I think I have an idea to compare 209 and lrp in the same gun but not with real loads and it will take me a little time to make the adapter bushing.
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Post by edge on Mar 10, 2015 7:53:36 GMT -5
IMO, 125 grains of H4350 with a 350 grain bullet is a pretty hot load!
For instance Barnes shows a max load in a .416 Weatherby magnum as 110 grains which is 97% full with a velocity of 2898 fps.
While you will probably get lower pressure in a ML...you are in an unknown area.
edge.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 8:45:36 GMT -5
I don't understand what efficiency issues mean? 90gr of 3031 with a 275gr bullet is my go to load. I stated that above. Zero ignition issues so far in any weather and with some bullets that nearly fall down the barrel. I have purposely left my rifle out in the cold portion of my shop overnight on some very cold days and fired it in the morning without issue. Kind of some dead horse beating here as there are few who actually run LRP ignition anyway and those that do either have access to machines or use Jeff's system. 209 is the norm and should be based on what is available to the normal consumer. Simple as that. I only have one gun in LRP ignition and the other is 209. The last gun I built for my father was 209... why? It's easy and available. I'm not building anymore for myself and probably not for anyone else for that matter as I'm kind of over the smokeless bug, for now anyway. I still get on here because you guys are a good bunch and to keep tabs a bit but not nearly like I once did. I kind of wish I would have never answered the other thread but it kind of bothers me when I'm told how in-efficient my ignition system is compared to 209. As stated above in my first post I will shoot any safe load if I have the supplies... in the name of science. Lol Linebaugh, 3031 in a .45, is actually an average speed powder. Depending on bullet weight. With a 325 or heavier bullet, it's a pretty fast powder. 4198 is a very fast powder in a .45. Just as 4350 is a very fast powder in a .416. The PMs I'm getting are in regards low velocities and misfires with slow powders in the LRM guns. I'm not getting any PMs in regards to fast or average speed powders in a LRM gun. It's very easy to ignite an average to fast burning powder in a 209 or LRM gun, no matter the caliber. With 4350 being a fast powder in a .416 Quickloads gives the following data for a load posted above: .416 31" barrel 350 grain bullet 125 grains of H4350 ~ 68,500 psi 3132 fps, his posted velocity was 3250 fps I did post my velocity at 3250 FPS.... but, I did not say I was using 125 grains to get the velocity...
Jeff Hankins.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 8:56:21 GMT -5
What was the amount of H4350 powder used?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 9:24:08 GMT -5
Jeff I believe you revealed that in cow hunters conversation about quickloads. That's what I was thinking your load was also.
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Post by rangeball on Mar 10, 2015 9:42:05 GMT -5
Beyond that I think I have an idea to compare 209 and lrp in the same gun but not with real loads and it will take me a little time to make the adapter bushing. Please do, there is very little of this type of comparison out there. |
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Post by hankinsrfls on Mar 10, 2015 9:54:55 GMT -5
Jeff I believe you revealed that in cow hunters conversation about quickloads. That's what I was thinking your load was also. Yes, I think you are correct. I didn't post a powder charge in this thread though... I don't think many people should be shooting 125 grains in there guns so that's why I didn't post the charge.
Don't want anyone to get confused and go dumping 125 grains down there barrel to check ignition.,, they might get better than they expected.. LOL.. Jeff Hankins.
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