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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 17, 2015 11:46:38 GMT -5
I normally try to be more deliberate and controlled with my testing but I feel like I have been locked in my house for months now. I am either always at work or it has been cold and wet. I got out and shot on the 1000yds KD range a couple of weeks ago when it was dry but very overcast and windy. Yesterday, I made a fast run to the range right before an ice storm hit. I wanted to empty my NULA and test a breechplug. I know there have been posts in the past about the POI shift of guns loaded for long periods and for muzzle coverings. The NULA was loaded with a 250gn Thor over 39gn of VV N110 back in the tail end of November. After hunting season ended the first week of January I decided to leave the primer in the console of my Taco to test the validity of people claims about primers (ie they are always (in store/house/shed/garage/etc) stored in open air I handle them with my hands all the time when loading ammo, I just wash my hands first to remove oil) and their sensitivity to being clean and dry. The reload was measured out the same day the gun was loaded and it was stored along with a primer in (separate) air tight vials. The rifle has also had a finger cot over the muzzle since it was loaded to prevent rain or FOD from entering the bore. It was cold and windy on the range so I drove to the 100yds berm and posted the first target in my target folder which was a pistol repair center. I drove back to the firing point and drug one of my work backpacks out of the truck and threw it down on the ground. I grabbed the primer from the truck console, primed the gun, curled up behind my ruck in a side-seated position and got on target. The range runs from SW to SE and there was about a 10mph wind from the N so it was quartering left to right. I broke the first shot and immediately conducted a reload as if it were a hunting scenario then wrapped back up around my pack and fired round two:  The first round hit 3.1" high and the reload hit 1.6" high. Both impacted right at 1.25" right of center which is about what wind drift should have been. It would require more testing with this particular rifle and better control over variables but I have tested the muzzle covering before and find it does affect POI. In this instance, as stated there are too many variables, from time loaded, condition of primer, my shooting position, etc. That said, it has never been enough of a shift for me to worry about the possibility of a miss at reasonable ranges. Also, primers left in uncontrolled environments still go bang although if able one should store them properly. This target was the zero for the gun the day it was loaded for deer hunting, the only change was I dialed on 2MOA for a 1.5" high zero. The bottom target was shot at 200yds after making the 2MOA adjustment:  I also took along the Green Beanie with a 9/64" PFC and .040" bushing to see if I could light a single of H4198 in the cold (20°F here is cold) and it worked. I know that a .030" bushing wont do it based on having tried. It just makes a muffled pop that makes a suppressed rifle sound loud. I had a good clean primer and no bulging from this test. I realize a sample of one is next to meaningless but it shows that it just might work in this gun. More testing is required though. |
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Post by cowhunter on Feb 17, 2015 12:47:51 GMT -5
7mm. That's one heck of a nice hog you have hanging in one of your photobucket photos. What is the story behind that. From the tusks photo it appears you have good hog hunting wherever you are.
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Post by rambler on Feb 17, 2015 12:56:41 GMT -5
7mm. That's one heck of a nice hog you have hanging in one of your photobucket photos. What is the story behind that. From the tusks photo it appears you have good hog hunting wherever you are.
U talkin' bout this one?? 
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 17, 2015 14:19:51 GMT -5
That was the first and only animal I shot with a compound bow before moving on to stickbows. I had to have been about 15 years old back then because I remember driving the 7-8 hours from my home in North Texas down to the Valley. We were doing a 2-day hunt on the Mew Ranch near San Diego, TX about 45 minutes from Mexico. We occasionally paid for "day hunts" because we couldn't afford leases and Texas is something like 97% private land.
We were there to hunt deer but it was hot and deer weren't moving; nobody saw a single one. Javelina, feral hogs, quail, and dove were found in abundance. By the first afternoon I was ready to trade my bow for a shotgun so I could hunt White-Wing.
The next morning I headed out for a water hole set-up. I climbed up in a large mesquite and shortly after heard what sounded like a tank tearing through the brush (like African jess). This big black hog busted through the under growth and walked to the little water hole. I had nocked an arrow when I heard the ruckus so when he dropped his head to drink I drew and drove an arrow from the top of his back, through both lungs, and buried in his off-side lower ribs.
He wound up, and bolted, throwing a rooster tail of mud and water. I could follow the trail of disturbed dew on the knee high coastal grass but I found exactly one drop of blood. I found where he ran straight through a barbed wire fence and into some impenetrable brush but could see the tunnel he bored into the brush. If he had died in there he'd made it about 150yds.
I marked the spot and went to the bunk house for help. About half a dozen of us went back and took a pistol. The guy with the pistol crawled in like a tunnel rat and came back saying it was dead, about 20yds into the bush. My dad and I crawled in and drug him out by sitting and doing a bunch of heave-ho, rowing. Back at the bunk house he bottomed out a 300# scale. We ate the tenderloins for dinner and we quatered him for the trip home; he filled a huge cooler.
It was a decent hunt.
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Post by rambler on Feb 17, 2015 14:35:47 GMT -5
Very cool accounting of a successful hunt.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 17, 2015 15:14:55 GMT -5
For frame of reference (I guessed the hog was about 375# since it bottomed out a 300# scale) I'm 5'9 and weighed about 150# when I was a high school freshman; it was as long as I was tall and twice as big around. This year, about 17 years later, my dad killed a 150"-ish buck about 20min from there on another small private property that hosted a hunt through his work in the gas industry. I posted it here. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 16:16:43 GMT -5
That's very cool! Interesting report also!
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Post by Richard on Feb 17, 2015 17:22:20 GMT -5
Nice hog and great story!
Richard
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Post by jsthntn247 on Feb 18, 2015 22:14:22 GMT -5
I shot mine yesterday that had been loaded for 2 months. Blew the back of the primer off and stuck the bolt. Never even had a bulged primer before.
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Post by 1coyotemaster on Feb 20, 2015 23:06:04 GMT -5
Good report thanks for sharing! The story about the hog hunt was interesting and well told.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 21, 2015 8:44:14 GMT -5
Thanks, guys. I think I am done with duplex loads. I loaded up another 65gn single of H4198 and left it in the garage the past couple of days (8° and 13°F) then went and shot it this morning. I know there has been a lot of testing done by Earnhardt on the PFC and bushing orifice to his great credit but I don't always do a good job of going back to research in depth. I feel like he runs a larger PFC than my 9/32" but he also runs heavier loads. I know for a while he headspaced/supported his primers differently than I do. I think we are set up similarly now. Either way, a 9/32" PFC and .040" bushing is giving me flawless ignition with zero primer bulging. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, just confirming it is indeed round and will roll.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 8:53:14 GMT -5
Keith, not doubting just asking in case I missed it. I know Earnhardt was having a PFC edm'd to be larger than the primer. Did you also have this done?
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 21, 2015 9:21:41 GMT -5
Cole,
I honestly don't know what the standard for a Savage plug is in regards to PFC or orifice in a vent liner. My plugs were made when the gun was barreled and came with 9/64" PFC (one reamed for the primer and the other just has the PFC and needs to be reamed for a primer) and I had/have a Pete's Plug with .030" bushing. That bushing would ignite duplexed N110/H4198 but not a single. Swapping out to a .040" fires it right up. My concern was that I remembered Josh enlarging the PFC to help equalize pressure and reduce primer damage. AirborneIke had mentioned to me that he had swapped over to a .040" bushing without enlarging the PFC and is not experiencing primer damage. He is familiar with how my gun supports the primer and said I might try it with just the bushing swap. So far, no issues.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 21, 2015 9:25:30 GMT -5
Sorry, I realize I didn't exactly answer your question: No, I didn't have the PFC opened up larger than the primer. Like I said, I know Josh is like the R&D department and always testing something to improve these systems. I try to keep up but lately I have been so busy I can barely catch my breath.
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Post by airborneike on Feb 21, 2015 12:29:37 GMT -5
Keith,
Brutal weather for training. The PFC in your plugs should be 9/64 .140 or so (not 9/32 .281)
The .140 bore PFC with the .040 bushing seems to work well with H4198 up to 70 grains, the main factor is having a tight fit on the primer. Large loads of slower powder needs to have PFC opened up.
Stay warm
Mike
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 21, 2015 15:58:36 GMT -5
Mike,
You are right, it is 9/64. Somehow, I went super dyslexic when I grabbed a drill bit; the 5/32 is right next to the 9/64 in my kit and my brain hybridized them. Good catch, and I bet that is the source of Cole's question.
As for weather, it was a close miss this week. I was supposed to leave the other morning for the mountains but as we were loading to go we got word a storm the night before shut things down there. No way in, no way out, and no MEDEVAC capability. It was already freezing and windy here, I was not looking forward to that trip although it would have been time and effort well spent.
Best,
Keith
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 22, 2015 13:03:31 GMT -5
Two weekends in a row I've been stuck inside. As a result..... More shelves and better organization:  A gun rack so I don't have to go to the safe every time I need a gun to mess with:  And built a new computer desk on Valentines instead of shooting the 1000yds range with a buddy (he gets away with it after 45 years of military and civil service ):  |
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Post by Dave W on Feb 22, 2015 13:41:25 GMT -5
Too organized!  What do you think of the Co-Ax? Especially for leverage? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 13:44:34 GMT -5
I knew Dave was gonna spot that!
All top notch work! Looks like you have a good deal of skills!
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Post by Dave W on Feb 22, 2015 13:47:23 GMT -5
I knew Dave was gonna spot that! All top notch work! Looks like you have a good deal of skills! Yeah, that was a blinking neon soon as I looked at the pic. |
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Post by jims on Feb 22, 2015 17:35:45 GMT -5
You have more powder that my local gun shop. Nice to have and well organized.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 22, 2015 17:37:38 GMT -5
When it comes to presses there are only two single stages in my opinion, the Ultra - Mag and the Co-Ax. I think the Co-Ax is beyond strong and provides great leverage. My Only complaint is loading long cartidges can be a chore when using dies like Redding or Forster Competition seaters. The sliding jaws also are a little annoying to operate but I have a system.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 18:16:35 GMT -5
Upon further snooping it looks like you have one of mikes sizing dies in your big press? If you had to choose between the ultramag and the co-ax strictly for full form sizing which would it be? |
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 22, 2015 18:52:23 GMT -5
I'd probably say the Ultra-Mag. It's one of the few cast iron presses left and I think that is important for big presses. I'm probably going to end up owning one again because the Hornady Hydraulic dies are going to force me to try wildcats again. I swore off shooting anything that required case forming and fire-forming before it could accept a full load. These new dies address that issue directly and I dint feel bad about hammering on an Ultra-Mag.
I don't size bullets on the Co-Ax for exactly the same reason I do most of my bullet seating on that press. I feel like the "floating die" concept works with metallic because the cases is pretty near fully supported or fully supported for the operation depending on dies used. When bullet sizing the bullet is not fully supported in the beginning and that same float makes me uncomfortable.
I size bullets on the Walnut Hill press to achieve that rigid die and because that press is straight. I also use it on the swage setting for the monster compression it offers. It is my Ultra-Mag but because it doesn't have a rigid frame like the Ultra-Mag I can't make myself hammer Hydraulic dies on it either.
Any of the three are great but the Redding is the most versatile.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 22, 2015 19:01:57 GMT -5
And yeah, you are right about the die. You have to have man hands and big wrenches to work it...and I like that. I'm about to do a die comparison soon and post it.
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Post by Dave W on Feb 22, 2015 19:16:17 GMT -5
Good info!
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Post by Mid_Tn_Plowboy on Feb 23, 2015 22:12:29 GMT -5
I have only used two different presses.. The RCBS and I bought the Redding Big Boss 2 not long ago. I really like the BB2 so far.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 24, 2015 4:58:20 GMT -5
I almost included the Big Boss 2 but I don't actually have any experience with it. I'm pretty sure all the Redding presses are cast iron and the BB2 looks to be a capable press.
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Post by Mid_Tn_Plowboy on Feb 24, 2015 14:38:11 GMT -5
I like the added height for loading the big cartridges. I've only pushed some jacketed bullets through my FF so far, havent tried any solid copper yet. Annealing will probably be a good idea.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Feb 24, 2015 19:03:10 GMT -5
It's a great press I'm sure and most guys probably don't need the larger opening or longer stroke of the Ultra-Mag but it's a great press that can do anything.
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