Everyone has an opinion, whats yours?

[jeff]

I recently put together a custom Sav/Pac 45, on a boyds stock with xtras, bedded, floated, 4x14x40 Leupold, with zero stop CDS turrets, sitting on a murphy base, and bead blasted by jeff Hankins. This rifle is sweet, anyways It shot a 1/2" 3 shot group today at 125 yards. When I called the gentleman who had purchased it, he mentioned he thought he would use it on a free range buffalo In BC this fall using 60 gr H4198 and 195gr Barnes. Duplexing, sabotless ect is out of the question. What ya think men, I believe a high shoulder shot inside 150 yards would be money~ Open for discussion. jeff~

[dans]

No doubt it will work. The old time buffalo hunters had a high regard for .40 caliber because they would shoot through the buffalos lungs and exit. That is what I would do. Double lung that buff with that load and he will be toast. I shoot that exact load at 2640 f/s and would not hesitate to take the archery shot.

[lwh723]

I wouldn't hesitate to use it. That bullet does a great job holding together. I know a whitetail isn't a buff, but I've only heard of a couple of 195BX's being recovered and those were at hard angles at longer distance.

[ratsnakeboogy]

I think it would work just fine, but I'd rather be sending the 250 or 290 TEZ to meet something as big as a Bison.

Old Ruark said "use enough gun", exactly what that means is debatable.

[rossman40]

A lot of buffalo gets chased because of a high shoulder shot. The hump throws everyone off and they place it too high.

[7mmfreak]

I'm sure it can get it done but I want more bullet. This is very similar to the idea that while a .338WM or 9.3x62mm is adequate to kill an African Buffalo they are not fight stoppers and that is why PH's don't carry them for the job. Yes, I think that little bullet will get it done but I think one should be patient and wait for a really good shot opportunities or be willing to pass.

[wilmsmeyer]

Amen to what Freak said and to what others said about taking an "archery" shot. There is no doubt that the copper bullet, at that speed, will get into the vitals on a "soft" angle. I suspect that after you ventilate an animal that big, they will stand there and act like nothing happened....then tip over in about 30 seconds.

Things I do not know: Are ranges close? Do these things have a temper? You got a buddy with an 870 full of slugs with you? If ML's only, maybe have a .50 with you and a strong load and a 400 gr Barnes buster for a follow up if you become in danger??

[mike243]

big bones would not be my choice for a lite bullet. Why take a chance with a critter that size? heart/lungs and it is going to die relatively quick,

[gar]

I have to agree with everyone on the archery shots with this bullet. Too bad he won't go sabotless and use a BO full formed or one of the other Barnes coppers.

[jims]

If you are going to use the Barnes 195s, as good as that bullet is, IMO on a large animal like a bison I would take the heart/lung shot also. Here is an animal that can weigh upwards of 5 times or more a deer with corresponding larger mass/bones. I would not tempt fate with trying to plow through bone, the relatively soft archery area would be preferred by me and the Barnes would have plenty of penetration to get the job done. Most of my shots on deer with it have been pass throughs so it should go pretty far into the chest cavity.
Now keep in mind that everyone has an opinion just like certain body parts, me included, and it is not like I get to shoot bison here in Ohio to have any real bison world experience but you were only asking for opinions, my 2 cents worth.

[Savage Shooter]

Just keep shot distance reasonable, (under 300yds), and the 195bx will perform flawlessly on near ANY animal on the planet.

Expect the 195bx to penetrate 30 - 36" minimum in ANY animal you shoot. The number of animals I have killed with it is staggering to say the least and to date I have recovered a total of ONE bullet! This bullet was shot into a large 160" class whitetail quartering to me. Impact was on front of right shoulder and was recovered in back hip 4" from tail just under the skin. Bullet shattered both front and back quarters on the way. Shot was approx 175yds. Expect penetration and terminal performance to be just like Accubond or Barnes TSX. Any body afraid to shoot .338 to .358 class 200gr Accubond or TSX at 2500 to 2600fps into any animal needs, well I am going to be polite and just say may need head examined.

Had a couple of friends use this for a permit elk hunt and one kilt a giant. I told him if he "caught" a bullet I wanted it, when he called me to boast his kill I asked about "my" bullet he told me I was welcome to it but would have to find it on the mountain side, broad side shot at 200yds had zipped right thru and animal recovery was about 40yds.!

This one.

[rangeball]

I've recovered one as well, after it went from the front left brisket and came to rest in the right rear ham of a big doe at 249 yds. It looked exactly like the pics above.

Awesome bullet.

[linebaugh]

I have shot 1 buffalo with a bow and more importantly I have processed one buffalo myself with no help. I can tell you for sure there is no comparison in sheer body size to any other animal I have ever shot. I nearly had to crawl inside the chest cavity up to my waist to cut the wind pipe for field dressing.
From what I saw I would not be surprised even a little to see a pass through with a good archery type shot and that combo. I was also surprised that the scapula was not near as thick as I expected (with the exception of the ridge) and I think you could punch through it handily with that bullet and load combo. I have no idea how it compares but I took a slight quartering away shot and with a 66# bow at about 30yrds and was able to run a 2 blade magnus through that angle and penetrate the off scapula. I did not penetrate it by more than a half blade length but none the less I was surprised.
I would say that if you shot and were unfortunate enough to engage that scapula ridge you are going to have serious problems. I would be surprised if you could penetrate much beyond the scapula in that case.

As someone stated buffalo often seem to react in slow motion when hit from what I have seen. In my case my buffalo trotted a few yards walked about 10 steps and tipped over.

Archery type shot only here IMO. Others may work fine as well but not worth the risk.

[mrbuck]

Savage Shooter...
That is a picture perfect expanded 195gr. Barnes ! I have never recovered any Barnes from an animal but they all never moved 40yds. after being hit .

[deadeye]

I'm sure the 195bx will be just fine-I would try to keep it off the shoulder plate but probably will do the job if it ends up there. imo

Africa-I don't hold much stock with what they do, but some do know what they are doing. just the other night watched a Africa hunt in which the shooter/hunter could not even stalk, get his gun up on bi-pod(tracker had to do it for him) then missed badly by a foot hitting a tree @ approx. 60yds. bout fell out of my chair laughing even though it was not really funny.

bet some here could show some impressive results with under bore guns set up with the right accurate load/ bullet.jmho

[shooter]

I have also shot some deer with the 195bx from 25yds to 230 yards it is a awesome bullet it wont disappoint.I shot a doe at 25yards in the front shoulder with it and it performed flawless she didn't Evan wiggle after it hit her.

[bigmoose]

I'm with Wilmsmeyer, a Barnes Buster Bullet at 2100FPS, will brake both shoulders black ribbed sabot .50 cal. remember its the twin of the Jefferies 404, a 100 year old Elephant round.
A bison weighs double the biggest brownie, no guide I know is happy with ML hunter, and will state, if you don't put the Moose or Bear down on your first shot they will shot.
Big game..... big and heavy bullets
Good Luck have a great hunt

Marty

[jims]

In googling to check out what the commercial buffalo hunters used back in the day it appears heavy weight bullets in .45 caliber was certainly one used. No smokeless powder so loads of black with heavy lead bullets. We have better bullets and smokeless so one has alternatives, fortunately bison/buffalo are not as hell bent on destruction as the African buffalo so even a lung shot probably won't have the bison looking for shooter revenge.

[miketodd58]

Opinion? Yep!

I would say it's comparable to going after elk with a .243.

Will it work? Sure! Has it worked? most defiantly .

But are there better bullets and better tools for the job? the answer is most defiantly YES!

[cowhunter]

If he could shoot sabotless he could shoot a 327 grain BH behind 73 grains 4198. With sabots the 195 gr Barnes is as good as he can do. Big cows are not as big and tough as buffalo, but they usually drop with anything behind the shoulder. Good shot placement is critical because you don't want them running back blabbing to their owner that you shot them.

[rossman40]

The structure,



Their recommended aim points,



I wouldn't go for the shoulder socket with a light bullet, the old buffalo hunters would use it to "pin" but they were using heavy bullets to take out both sides. The recommended heart shot has one problem, the leg bone is in the way. I would go a tad higher for a double lung shot with just ribs and not chance a deflection off the leg bone with a light bullet. Close in and your confidence is high, another heart shot option,

[gar]

Great illustration Rossman. Note how heavy that knuckle is that lines up with the spine for a DRT shot? I'm thinking a bit heavier than what you want to take on with the 195, however if the shot is quartering and the aim point is to hit that joint on the off side then I say go for it.

[norseman1]

I would go with a heavy bullet.My friend took two Cape Buffs with a Freedom Arms 454 using gas checked 340 grain LFN bullets.Punched through the front shoulders twice on the first one and the second once in the shoulder and a Texas heart shot on the second and third that traveled to the front chest cavity.Both were dead in a matter of minutes.There aint no re[placement for displacement on big heavy boned critters.norseman1

[jims]

norseman1: That worked for your friend. He has more guts than I. In a couple of minutes before a mean Cape buffalo dies, he could inflict a lot of return damage before expiring. Hopefully a PH with a .458 Win Mag as back up just to be sure.
I would like to take a Cape Buffalo someday, probably will never happen but I would use my .375 H&H Imp Mag and have the PH at the ready. I could shoot at longer distances potentially than your friend. I admire what he did, just not wanting to use his firearm.

[norseman1]

Well at 1,650 FPS he is only 350FPS behind a 450/400.Both animals were shot at under 25 yards with a PH with a 378 bee as a back up.He also had a license for elephant but did not get one because of poachers.The PH was duly impressed.I would like to try with my BFR 475 Linebaugh but need to win the Lotto first.

[jims]

That darn lotto.

[rossman40]

I researched pretty heavy back 10-12 years ago to go out west where a early boardmember (Ronmar) said he knew of some cheap hunts. There was a drought back then and the "buffalo ranches" were wanting to reduce their herds instead of feeding them during the winter. Then I found I could buy some young cows for about $650 each and just put them to pasture (if I had a good fence) and harvest them when the time came. Basicly a buffalo hunt in my back yard, but it would be more of a slaughter then a hunt. Then I'm one of those "kill it and grill it" meat hunter types and logisticly the backyard hunt had it's advantage. Make a family day out of it so I would have plenty of help to dress it out and then process it. Son-in-law never has finished his fencing project on his pasture so that idea has been in limbo since.

[miketodd58]

I have spent some time on some of the high fence places down in Texas.

They have the animals corralled in different sections of the ranches. I have seen animals feeding at feeding troths and ranch hands just drive up to the troths and push the herds out of the way to fill the troths.

Then on game day they dry those feeding areas up and start drawing them into scattered parts of the ranch with mobile corn feeders.

The guides can put you on any animal you want almost on cue because they know how to pattern the animals with mobile corn feeders. When the animals have been starved for a day or two off the corn..when they hear the sound of the corn feeders going off they know to come in on the corn.

This is no highly guarded secret. And I am not saying its wrong to hunt that way. For the guy that does not have time to put in on searching free range ranches or may only get a few days off a year to hunt I think these ranches are a great idea. Also for someone wanting to take a opportunity at some exotic animals without the huge cost of out of country travel and guide fees.. the Texan Ranches are by far much cheaper. Truth be told alot of those hunts abroad are high fence hunts as well. Try and get the meat back from those places too. Unless you have hit the lottery its almost impossible.