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Post by esshup on Jan 6, 2015 15:25:46 GMT -5
Going to use it as part of the arsenal in Texas for hogs. Feeder is set up roughly 100 yds from the blinds. I was planning on using 180g Accubonds and Lapua brass. I have a good selection of powder and primers.
Rifle is a very early FN SPR with a 26" tube and I'm pretty sure it's a 1:12 twist rate. It probably won't be used for any shots longer in distance than 2-300 yds; I have a fast 7mm that will also be making the trip for the long shots.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jan 6, 2015 21:37:15 GMT -5
If its a 1-12 twist it might not stabilize those 180 grain bullets very good. I'd drop down to a 168 grain bullet if I were you..
Jeff.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 6, 2015 22:10:01 GMT -5
I second the lighter bullet. I grew up in TX and hogs aren't bullet proof. Any big game bullet will kill them. A 168gn over Varget, H4895, or RL15 will do the trick. If it won't shoot your gun is sick.
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Post by esshup on Jan 7, 2015 2:39:44 GMT -5
7mm and hankinsrfls, all I have in 168 flavor are SMK's (#2200). The 168 SMK's work farily well, FGM Gold Medal Match 168 factory stuff will group consistently 1/2 moa from 100 yds out to 800 yds, then at 1,000 the group was 5" wide by 10" tall. But by then the barrel was getting warm because I was shooting faster to get it all in before sunset, and for that distance I'd prefer more than the 10x scope, but that's what I had to work with. I was testing the rifle before I bought it. 7mmfreak, here's a 7mm that you may or may not have seen. Here it is next to a .308.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 7, 2015 5:10:13 GMT -5
Is it a 7mm Allen Mag?
If you are shooting 168s into regular .5 MOA groups to 800yds and .5 MOA by 1 MOA square at 1000 yards you are doing pretty well and should start competing in F-Class. I have not had much success with the 168gn bullet past about 700m. The one exception to that was a new guy we had on the 1000yds KD range one weekend with an M1A. He had never shot past 300yds before and when he told us all he had was 168s me and Norm looked at each other and told him we couldn't promise him much as it might or might not work. The 168gn SMK bullet is know for instability issues and this part of NC offers nearly sea level atmospherics.
I was on one end of the firing line, Norm in the middle, and this guy on the other end with two fairly experienced shooters (we thought). I was spotting for a couple of new shooters and hadn't even brought a gun; either me or Norm have to be RSO according to the range agreement with the post. After about 20min of shooting Norm asked me to go help at the other end. I caught his trace about 10 feet off the right sight of the target board. I measured with the reticle and gave him a windage and elevation correction. The next round was in the line between 9 and 10 ring (10" from center) at an almost perfect 6 o'clock impact. The remainder of his magazine went into a scatter plot that had a few 7s, a few 8s, a couple of 9s, and a single X. When I told Norm we were straight he looked as surprised as I had been.
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Post by deadeye on Jan 7, 2015 9:57:55 GMT -5
my pair of .308's just might be the oddball's but tried 155,165,168,175 with a few powders. oddly enough they shot approx. .75moa but wanted better. r5--11.75tw & rem 700 vld 1/12twist both shot under .5 with the berger 185vld's & r15//one liked right on the lands/other .030 off///both shoot under .5moa @ 500yds going longer when I get a chance sometime this winter. fwiw 7mm- set up a buds gun yrs ago & it was shooting very well(under .5moa) out to 900yds/ 168gn bergers w/ retumbo//gun was a rem 700 ss light contour... tried to buy it got laughed at let us know how the hog hunt goes! good luck!
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Post by esshup on Jan 7, 2015 11:49:44 GMT -5
7mm - yes it is a 7mm AM. Good eyes! I think I got lucky when I got the .308. A client of mine who is a tactical shooter and minute of man is "good enough" had it. He said he couldn't get it to shoot at 600 yds and hit a man sized target when he was at a shooting school compared to his other "sniper" rifle, so the instructors changed the scopes on the rifles for him (for some reason he didn't like this scope) and it was put back into the safe. When I was talking to him about looking for a .308 or similar caliber to practice with because it was cheaper than the 7mm AM, he said here, take this. If you like it we'll talk price. He gave me the gun, scope, bipod and 3 boxes of factory Federal 168g Gold Medal Match ammo. He said he sent 16 rounds thru the tube before putting it into the safe. The guys at the school knew what they were doing, first 3 shots with it at 100 yds were centered above the bull, 1 1/2" to 2" high with the elevation bottomed out (IIRC 20 moa base).
A friend from Illinois was visiting when I took it to the range, and I have to give JJ a lot of credit for reading the wind for me and calling out click adjustments that I should make at each distance. He's a retired State Police sniper trainer. I shot it every 100 yds from 100 to 800 yds and it shot exactly 1/2 moa with the factory ammo at every distance. I skipped 900 yds because of approaching darkness and not having time to let the barrel cool for two more groups, there was enough light to only shoot one more group.
Like I said, it's one of the early FN SPR rifles, HS precision stock, 26" tube (not 24"). It's wearing a 10x Leupy Vari-X III 40mm objective side focus scope that has a 30mm tube and mil-dot reticle. Harris bipod and it had the factory trigger that was too heavy for my liking and had a bit of creep. I think it has Badger Ordinance bases and rings on it. I've since switched the trigger to a Jewell. JJ said the same thing, the factory 168's run out of steam at 1K. He shoots 175's loaded pretty hot out of his .308 and he said they are barely supersonic at 1K.
I got a pretty good deal on it, I think I traded work in the amount of $1350.00 for the whole rifle "as is". I even have the factory box if that matters. I bought the rifle 2 years ago and work got buys, so I haven't even shot it in the 2 years except testing the Jewell here at the house. (I can shoot to 350 yds here)
I did some looking a year ago, but couldn't find any F-Class shooting going on near here - North Central Indiana. As far as I know, there's only one 1K range in Indiana and I'm a member.
I haven't even shot the 7mm AM at paper much, just at steel and rocks when I was out West. I know if I do my part squeezing the trigger and reading the wind (still got a lot to learn) it's a 1/4 moa gun operated by a 1/2 to 3/4 moa wind reader. (3/4" c-c groups at 300 yds if it's calm). I've run it out to 1330 yards with JJ spotting at rocks on a hillside and the 2nd bullet lands into the crater that the first bullet made. I was pushing 175g SMK's at 3475 fps, but after slightly more than 200 rounds down the barrel they started going *poof* at about 50 yds. I've since switched to 180 Bergers at 3350 (where the gun likes 'em) and so far they are holding together. I have a bunch of 200g Wildcat bullets that are sorted according to weight and bearing surface, but haven't played with them enough to get them to shoot as accurately as the Bergers. The 1:9 is enough to stabilize them (it seems).
deadeye, will do. I'll be there for work the last half of Feb and the beninning of March. We're supposed to thin the herd around the 15th. I have more work to do there after that, so I may not check back in until the end of March when I get back.
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Post by yule on Jan 7, 2015 13:12:16 GMT -5
That is one BIG 7mm. How much powder will that case hold ?
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 7, 2015 21:41:40 GMT -5
esshup, you have some very good setups. You also seem like you are capable of shooting them quite well and have a good coach. I only mentioned the twist at first because it might or might not be a 1-12; I have even had custom button barrels that were not exactly what they were advertized to be.
Jeff,
I don't doubt you had good luck with the 168 Berger. The 168gn Sierra is the one I mentioned as having some stability issues based on having shot quite about of M852 and having read other people's testing of the Sierra bullet. That said, as mentioned above, I have seen it shoot pretty well at 1000yds once. That 185gn Berger is a monster too. I am about to give them a shot in the gun I did the testing of the Bushnell with. Right now I shoot 190gn SMK and 208gn A-AMX out of it unless I have to shoot 175gn due to a match requiring factory ammo. Norm shoots the 185gn Berger over Alliant MR2000 and is killing long range prone matches with it.
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Post by esshup on Jan 8, 2015 2:37:05 GMT -5
That is one BIG 7mm. How much powder will that case hold ? I haven't checked the case capacity, but I'm loading (depending on temp and bullet) 106g-111g of WC-872 powder and the 111g not a compressed load..... The 'smith said approx. 10% more than the parent .338 Lapua case. 7mm, thanks. I just wish he lived closer! The learning curve would be steeper if he did. I'll drag the .308 out of the safe and measure the twist.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Jan 8, 2015 16:21:49 GMT -5
Gotta go with deadeye on this one. 44gr RL 15 shot the 180AB just fine in a 12 twist.......if can get speed up over 2500 easy then twist will be ok........
Really like IMR4895 at 42gr also in the 12 twist guns.......
Both loads area bit over max depending on manual you look at so work up......
Both are well over 90% fill loads too.....prolly close to 95%.......
I just used Nosler's OAL at 2.80 to start and shot fine.
Even at 0 degrees using the Litz length the Miller Stability Factor is still over 1.3 at 2500fps, should stabilize fine!
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Post by mrbuck on Jan 8, 2015 17:22:02 GMT -5
With good shooting weather and time on my hands , I tried a different load in my old Remington 760 . The gun is a 1977 vintage gun and I beleieve it's carbine barrel has a 1 in 10" twist . A equally old Lyman reloading
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Post by mrbuck on Jan 8, 2015 17:34:28 GMT -5
Sorry ! manual lists 41.0grs of IMR 4895 as an accuracy load with a 180gr. bullet for the .308 Winchester . I loaded 8 rounds with the Hornady 180gr. round nose in unfired Winchester .308 brass using Winchester large rifle primers ... 2 shots to foul the barrel and 6 rounds for 2 three shot groups . The first 3 shot group measured 1.01" and the second measured 1.09" at 100yds . For a carbine with a 2.5-8 scope , I thought that was good 'nuff .
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Post by hankinsrfls on Jan 8, 2015 18:00:54 GMT -5
A one inch group from a 1977 760 carbine barrel and I'd be more than happy.. Good shooting with a good old gun...
Jeff.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 8, 2015 18:45:32 GMT -5
I would take that from an old 760 any day!
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Post by mrbuck on Jan 8, 2015 20:05:01 GMT -5
Thank you . My go to load is 150gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips over 50grs. of Win. 748 with the same primer and brass combination . I have also used 150gr, Nosler Partitions with 50.0grs of Win. 748 and Winchester brass and Winchester primers . About 2740fps through the chrono at 10'. Your compliments are appreciated. I'm slightly better at reloading and shooting than computer skills . Chris
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Post by xring on Jan 9, 2015 9:24:27 GMT -5
Savage model 12 1/12 twist 30" barrel 8oz trigger 34power leupold gun weight 13.8# COAL2.776 .025 off lands H4895 39.6 Nosler CC 168BTHP equal one bung hole at 200yds Works for me
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 9, 2015 9:30:28 GMT -5
Haha, you said bung hole. Esshup, Another load that calculates just fine in a 1-12 (may work as that bullet is not as long as similar weight plastic tipped bullets ) is the 190gn SMK that will give you a good training load. This is a seating depth test I did at 300yds: 2645 fps AVG, 20fps ES, 9fps SD
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Post by deadeye on Jan 9, 2015 9:48:04 GMT -5
Haha, you said bung hole. keith~ watch out//xring is my spotter
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 9, 2015 9:54:42 GMT -5
Sorry, Jeff, I just had an immediate flash back to Beavis and Butthead. Made me laugh like a little kid.
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Post by deadeye on Jan 9, 2015 11:11:37 GMT -5
Sorry, Jeff, I just had an immediate flash back to Beavis and Butthead. Made me laugh like a little kid. yeah ~ had a good one here also.//gotta watch my crew as they tried to get a "operation bunghole" on me the other day when I could not make the 22rf shoot @ xrings garage 100+ yds in 30mph+ winds. with xring just smiling as another was piling it on how accurate & the amazing results they were achieving almost never missing @ very small targets. but I brought a very important point-the wind was at their backs as they thought I would not have known/remembered the direction & approx. mph's that day. then they kept pouring it on as conditions were much different there/finally let them off the hook compensating for some severe "wind shear" from that heated garage. hope another laugh while in near blizzard conditions here. xring's .308 it is a finshnail driver when in the groove/I'm sure he won't sell it to me! take care,jeff
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 9, 2015 18:54:08 GMT -5
I knew you couldn't really shoot...
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Post by deadeye on Jan 9, 2015 19:05:58 GMT -5
I knew you couldn't really shoot... true!
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Post by xring on Jan 10, 2015 9:27:07 GMT -5
Bunghole here, I am thinking of getting a 308 out today the see if it has tight bunghole capabilities. Or I could grab another rifle that will only shoot medium size bungholes. I think I have a old rifle or two that just likes loose bungholes. And I have one that just shoots very sloppy bungholes. All depends on what kind of bunghole you expect out of your weapon of choice.
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Post by xring on Jan 14, 2015 6:39:14 GMT -5
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Post by 7mmfreak on Jan 14, 2015 7:07:08 GMT -5
If those were superimposed over one another I'm pretty sure there would just be a tiny black mohawk on that bulls-eye.
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Post by xring on Jan 14, 2015 7:35:57 GMT -5
Thanks 7mm. The ole sow found an acron that day.
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Post by deadeye on Jan 14, 2015 20:16:18 GMT -5
sitting her very "under the weather" this target again brightens my day as I just love accuracy.
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Post by herman on Jan 18, 2015 11:44:36 GMT -5
Savage model 12 1/12 twist 30" barrel 8oz trigger 34power leupold gun weight 13.8# COAL2.776 .025 off lands H4895 39.6 Nosler CC 168BTHP equal one bung hole at 200yds Works for me Esshup In my teka 308 for a hunting load,I like the sierra 165 BTHP with 47.5 grs of CFE or 43.5 grs of H4895 and win primer.Tuff bullet. Good shooting xring Have the same savage and it will shoot. Don't shoot it much but it will get her done.
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Post by jims on Jan 18, 2015 16:20:26 GMT -5
Herman: You can even shoot those centerfires.
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