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Post by bluedog on Dec 16, 2014 8:09:34 GMT -5
Folks,
I have decided to convert my MLII to 45 after the new year and would like to know what the present 45 smokeless barrel recommendations are. I want to shoot sabot-less and would prefer a .458 barrel that will fit a 45 cal bullet without sizing or knurling, if possible. I love the Barnes TEZ for deer hunting. I also want to keep my factory laminate stock and keep the ramrod on the rifle/stock. What barrel?
Thanks, Billy
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Post by cuda on Dec 16, 2014 8:32:11 GMT -5
I used the McGowen 45 barrel .450/.458 1-22 twist on my Stevens. And I use the 290gr .451 Barnes TEZ no sizing with a lubed wad on 69gr of IMR4198 sabot less. I used a Savage BP with a old carbide bushing and a Win 209. You might need to add a thimble for the ram rod or use the screw method to hold the ram rod. We have it zeroed for 100yds and killed deer from 130yds and out to 200yds
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 8:41:10 GMT -5
The Mcgowen's seem to be the only make that fits your needs/wants...Check with Luke when he gets back to see if he has an order in for them...
Pacnors are tighter and I'm not sure about the Brux's bore but I believe sizing is needed for it also....
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Post by kbrezlin on Dec 16, 2014 8:43:42 GMT -5
I put a Pacnor on mine from Luke. Large shank 26" length, 1.12" for 5 inches then straight taper to 0.9" at the muzzle plus the break. I kept the factory laminate stock but I swapped the recoil lug out when I had the barrel off. I had to have the barrel channel opened up to accept the heavier contour and around the barrel nut for the thicker lug, and had the 3 action screw installed, pillar, and bedded when it was apart. Picking it up tomorrow. The barnes 290 TEZ go in the muzzle snug without sizing, but I have not tried to push one all the way down yet. The conversion took me 15 minutes to complete. I did away with the ramrod on the gun and have a 3 piece collapsable from Luke with a spin jag. I put up a pic if I can ever figure out how to post them. I'm Electronically challenged.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 9:46:54 GMT -5
Folks, I have decided to convert my MLII to 45 after the new year and would like to know what the present 45 smokeless barrel recommendations are. I want to shoot sabot-less and would prefer a .458 barrel that will fit a 45 cal bullet without sizing or knurling, if possible. I love the Barnes TEZ for deer hunting. I also want to keep my factory laminate stock and keep the ramrod on the rifle/stock. What barrel? Thanks, Billy McGowen is likely your best shot for out of the box sabotless shooting, but I believe I recall Luke saying even some of them are tighter lately and require a die. IMO, I'd buy a McGowen and a smooth swinglock die from Luke, that way you're not limited to maybe just one or two bullets possibly. Get the die and shoot whatever 451-452 bullets you want, it's a great investment. My McGowen likes the 275 and 300 Match Hunters right out of the box, the 250 TEZ has to have a pretty heavy knurl for me. Every barrel is different so your experience could be different from any one else's. You can always send your bullet of choice to McGowen and ask them to send you a barrel that fits that bullet perfectly, sometimes thats a help to get a barrel of choice. Talk to Luke when he gets back and see what he has or when he's getting them, he may be able to hand select you a nice sabotless barrel out of an order.. The die is priceless, it will open up a ton of options for you. Good luck which ever way you decide to go. You could also pm Myers129 and see what he has on hand and also get a good talk thru the whole build process. |
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Post by cowhunter on Dec 16, 2014 13:01:04 GMT -5
Dog, if I were you I would re-think things. Just get a sizing die and you won't be stuck with inferior bullets or barrels. Try to get a Brux from Luke. I would be willing to pay up to 50% more for a Krieger or Brux barrel.
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Post by rambler on Dec 16, 2014 13:05:11 GMT -5
Dog, if I were you I would re-think things. Just get a sizing die and you won't be stuck with inferior bullets or barrels. Try to get a Brux from Luke. I would be willing to pay up to 50% more for a Krieger or Brux barrel. DITTO!! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 13:45:45 GMT -5
Dog, if I were you I would re-think things. Just get a sizing die and you won't be stuck with inferior bullets or barrels. Try to get a Brux from Luke. I would be willing to pay up to 50% more for a Krieger or Brux barrel. DITTO!! Really? For hunting purposes like he stated??? There are a ton of McGowen's and PacNor's out there that shoot sub MOA to 200 yards and way beyond... For hunting I'd go with the McGowen and get a smooth die and spend the extra you woulda spent on the Brux or Krieger on bullets and forget about it, but to each their own. If you wanna stretch it way out there and maybe try to win some challenges, then maybe spring for the upper end barrels. JMO |
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Post by rambler on Dec 16, 2014 14:09:57 GMT -5
Really? For hunting purposes like he stated??? There are a ton of McGowen's and PacNor's out there that shoot sub MOA to 200 yards and way beyond... For hunting I'd go with the McGowen and get a smooth die and spend the extra you woulda spent on the Brux or Krieger on bullets and forget about it, but to each their own. If you wanna stretch it way out there and maybe try to win some challenges, then maybe spring for the upper end barrels. JMO Yes, really. On Lukes web site the difference in price between a Brux and a Mcgowen is less than 30 bucks. The sizing die is what it is. JMO of course 
30 bucks is easily worth it, if anything for status.
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Post by rambler on Dec 16, 2014 14:12:29 GMT -5
Really? For hunting purposes like he stated??? There are a ton of McGowen's and PacNor's out there that shoot sub MOA to 200 yards and way beyond... For hunting I'd go with the McGowen and get a smooth die and spend the extra you woulda spent on the Brux or Krieger on bullets and forget about it, but to each their own. If you wanna stretch it way out there and maybe try to win some challenges, then maybe spring for the upper end barrels. JMO Yes, really. On Lukes web site the difference in price between a Brux and a Mcgowen is less than 30 bucks. The sizing die is what it is. JMO of course
30 bucks is easily worth it, if anything for status.
Uh Oh....sorry the Mcgowen, at least the cheapest one on Luke's web site is $330.00. That's a C note cheaper than the Brux. I was looking at his fluted model. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 14:20:40 GMT -5
In my experience I stand a better chance of a good first outing with a mcgowen. The ones I have had flat out shot from the first group on. I wouldn't be afraid to save some cash unless you're overloaded with it. JMHO
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 14:31:01 GMT -5
Is a Brux or a Krieger better than a McGowen or a PacNor? Likely
Do they make the McGowen or the PacNor inferior hunting barrels?
No way in he-double-L.
I have both McGowen and PacNor barreled guns and more in the works, I have 0 worries about deer knowing which barrel killed them, will I win any match shoots, probably not, but don't plan to and that's not my goal, so I make my money go further while still fitting the needs I'm looking for.
Point is, why push a guy looking to convert, into the most expensive route possible, when he doesnt need to and all he is looking for is a good hunting gun.
Let's help people get involved as reasonable as possible, if money is no object or they clearly state they want the best, most accurate long range sml possible, that's the guys we can steer towards the upper end stuff. Again, JMO
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Post by Richard on Dec 16, 2014 14:54:49 GMT -5
I built three Rem/McGowan ML'ers for a guy, his buddy and his father. All three of them shoot MOA with the 275 MH to 300 and beyond. He was so tickled one day, she texed me a photo of a buck he shot at 150 yards and not a half hour later, a doe she dropped at 340 yards...............both one shot bang flops! I dare say all three of them shoot hunting good. Yes, maybe the Brux or a Krieger (both cut rifled barrels) "might" have an edge........THATS edge, not EDGE  in a bench rest competition. Even my loose in the breech PN shoots good with the right duplex or saboted bullets! Richard |
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Post by rambler on Dec 16, 2014 15:09:08 GMT -5
Is a Brux or a Krieger better than a McGowen or a PacNor? Likely Do they make the McGowen or the PacNor inferior hunting barrels?ud No way in he-double-L. I have both McGowen and PacNor barreled guns and more in the works, I have 0 worries about deer knowing which barrel killed them, will I win any match shoots, probably not, but don't plan to and that's not my goal, so I make my money go further while still fitting the needs I'm looking for. Point is, why push a guy looking to convert, into the most expensive route possible, when he doesnt need to and all he is looking for is a good hunting gun. Let's help people get involved as reasonable as possible, if money is no object or they clearly state they want the best, most accurate long range sml possible, that's the guys we can steer towards the upper end stuff. Again, JMO Good advice! ! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 15:22:41 GMT -5
For what it is worth my McRem can shoot to 400 yards at or less than moa with 327 mh. I hope to get to 500 yards or farther. Only thing I noticed with this rifle is the trigger puller is it's weakest link.
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Post by ping on Dec 16, 2014 16:49:05 GMT -5
If the difference is only $30.00 I would go with what's in stock and what will work for your gun.. Just about any of these barrels are capable of shooting MOA.
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Post by tnhunter54 on Dec 16, 2014 17:29:06 GMT -5
For what it is worth my McRem can shoot to 400 yards at or less than moa with 327 mh. I hope to get to 500 yards or farther. Only thing I noticed with this rifle is the trigger puller is it's weakest link. I have to agree with this statement. |
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Dec 16, 2014 18:32:54 GMT -5
However...from another point of view....and don't start badgering me on this view. In some things....not all. I have found that after I had made an investment in something. That for a little more money I could have went to the top shelf Item....and then regretted that I hadn't ...for a little more. I also look at how whatever I buy holds its resale value should I ever decide to sell it. In this case..I personally would go for the Brux. But Bluedog....you got to read all this and decide how you want to spend your money. As I said in my pm. Don't get in a hurry...do lots of homework. Deer season is about done with anyway.There is ever developing progress on this board. And an absolute wealth of help and knowledge also. It can be confusing and overwhelming. So just take your time and keep reading
Good luck
Drop
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Post by darrel on Dec 16, 2014 18:58:55 GMT -5
Really? For hunting purposes like he stated??? There are a ton of McGowen's and PacNor's out there that shoot sub MOA to 200 yards and way beyond... For hunting I'd go with the McGowen and get a smooth die and spend the extra you woulda spent on the Brux or Krieger on bullets and forget about it, but to each their own. If you wanna stretch it way out there and maybe try to win some challenges, then maybe spring for the upper end barrels. JMO Yes, really. On Lukes web site the difference in price between a Brux and a Mcgowen is less than 30 bucks. The sizing die is what it is. JMO of course
30 bucks is easily worth it, if anything for status.
Uhh $30 bucks? Even the Pacnors are more than $100 more than the McGowans Let alone the Brux. I'm really thinking about doing this but am not seeing only a $30 diference. Am I missing something? Darrel |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 19:08:02 GMT -5
McGowen is $330
Brux is $460
$130 difference
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Post by rambler on Dec 16, 2014 19:10:07 GMT -5
Yes, really. On Lukes web site the difference in price between a Brux and a Mcgowen is less than 30 bucks. The sizing die is what it is. JMO of course
30 bucks is easily worth it, if anything for status.
Uhh $30 bucks? Even the Pacnors are more than $100 more than the McGowans Let alone the Brux. I'm really thinking about doing this but am not seeing only a $30 diference. Am I missing something? Darrel Here are Luke's prices:
Pac-Nor Barrels
Pac-Nor Rem 700ML, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", #7 Contour $436.00 Call
Pac-Nor Rem 700ML, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", Sendero Contour $436.00 Call
Pac-Nor Rem 700ML, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", #7 Contour FLUTED $586.00 Call
Pac-Nor Rem 700ML, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", Sendero Contour FLUTED $586.00 Call
Pac-Nor Sav Small Shank, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22" SS Stnd Match $436.00 Call
Pac-Nor Sav Small Shank, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22" SS Stnd Match FLUTED $586.00 Call
Pac-Nor Sav Large Shank, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22" SS Stnd Match $436.00 Call
Pac-Nor Customer Specified Action/Length/Contour $436.00 Call
McGowen Barrels
McGowen Rem 700ML, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", SS DMB-1 $330.00 Call
McGowen Rem 700ML, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", SS FLUTED DMB-1 $430.00 Call
McGowen Savage Small Shank, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", SS #7 $330.00 Call
McGowen Savage Small Shank, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", SS FLUTED $430.00 Call
McGowen Savage large Shank, 25", 45 Cal, 1/22", SS #7
Brux:
•Available Actions & Contours:
◦Savage Small Shank (1.057")
◾1.055" X 5", ST 0.800@28"
◾1.055" X 5", ST 0.822@26"
◦Savage Large Shank (1.117")
◾1.120" X 5", ST 0.805@28"
◾1.120" X 5", ST 0.832@26"
◦Remington 700ML Available Contours
◾1.200" X 5", ST .950" @ 7.5", ST .813" @ 28"
◾1.200" X 5", ST .950" @ 7.5", ST .826" @ 26"
•45 Caliber, 1/20 twist, 6L, SS
•Price $460
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Post by darrel on Dec 16, 2014 19:15:34 GMT -5
I'm still coming up with a +$100 difference
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Post by rambler on Dec 16, 2014 19:19:46 GMT -5
As depicted some of the McGowens are $100 cheaper. I'm sure they'd make a very fine smokeless for the money. I've never had one so I could not speak from experience.
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Post by darrel on Dec 16, 2014 19:26:59 GMT -5
Apples to Apples, Fluted to fluted. $100 and over between McGowan, PacNor & Brux.
Darrel
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Post by jwied on Dec 16, 2014 20:42:58 GMT -5
My McGowan from Luke this summer requires sizing on the tez. It will start but not go all the way down. Buy the die and a 30 dollar harbor freight arbor press and be done!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 20:50:27 GMT -5
Folks, I have decided to convert my MLII to 45 after the new year and would like to know what the present 45 smokeless barrel recommendations are. I want to shoot sabot-less and would prefer a .458 barrel that will fit a 45 cal bullet without sizing or knurling, if possible. I love the Barnes TEZ for deer hunting. I also want to keep my factory laminate stock and keep the ramrod on the rifle/stock. What barrel? Thanks, Billy For what it's worth my McGowen will shoot like this all day long with sized 250 SST @ 100 yards. 5 shot group  BE's are a drop fit and shoot just about as good. What you'll find out is even though you get bullets all from the same batch they still all mic out different. Which will cause some accuracy issue but still will shoot moa. If your wanting 1/2 moa or better you need to size to get them all the same size. This is my experience. Barnes I believe are drip for also. I know someone who takes his breech plug out and knurls his Barnes up a touch and pushes his bullets down the barrel out the top before he goes shooting. In a sense he's full forming them. This is with a McGowen barrel. Talk to Luke and see if he can find a barrel that will accept either the Barnes or the BE's drop fit and you should be good. Seriously I'd look at getting a sizing die it will benefit you in the end greatly. Good luck |
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Post by markb317 on Dec 17, 2014 0:19:17 GMT -5
I have built ML's with both McGowen barrels 3 of them and 1 with a Brux barrel. The Mcgowens have shot the MH bullets with no sizing and shoot very good . My 28" Brux barrel needs the bullets sized but seems to have a much smoother and consistent bore diameter. This barrel in my opinion is worth the extra money , I would use a Brux barrel on all future builds unless the person can't be talked into the money for the Brux then it will be a McGowen.
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Post by cowhunter on Dec 17, 2014 13:44:51 GMT -5
I think Bluedog is getting just what he needs -- many honest opinions. I should disclose my lack of experience. Richard built one of my good-shooting PN barreled guns. I have had four PN barrels. The first three are all accurate. I haven't truly tested the last, which is tight at the muzzle. No barrel is perfect, but my Krieger comes close. With a PN you are likely to have to index full- form bullets. I don't mind much, but it is still something. Several of my PN barrels have inconsistent tight and loose spots, but it does not seem to affect accuracy. Blue dog is lucky. I never had the option of a Brux barrel configured to fit a 700ml or Savage action.
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Post by vpimine on Dec 17, 2014 14:43:53 GMT -5
Just to point out in an earlier post Luke pointed out the last batch of McGowen barrel he received that the barrels were much tighter and didnot think they could be used for sabotless without sizing. I copied his post and put below with a link to the conversation... From Luke " Nov 14, 2014 at 11:17am Quote Post Options Post by lwh723 on Nov 14, 2014 at 11:17am Actually, The last few batches of McGowens that I've sold have tightened up and can't be shot without sizing. The 290TEZ is definitely the smallest diameter, but without trying, no way to know for sure. dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/16320/new-mcgowen-barrel-factory-bullets#ixzz3MBapamfT |
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Post by 10ga on Dec 17, 2014 19:06:31 GMT -5
Here are Luke's prices:[/p]
$436.00
$586.00
$330.00
$430.00
This makes my yearning for a NIB White Rifle that I laid hands on recently seem doable. The NIB rifle and all accessories was only $430. Yikes no, I'm not going back to smokers. I did see a NIB H&R in 45-70 for 250 and then I can get it converted reasonable. NO way I going back to smokers. You see I'm an addict. That Brux price isn't really bad. Now if I can find another donor real reasonable.......
Merry Christmas to all and may you find a SS donor under your tree! 10 ga
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in a bench rest competition. Even my loose in the breech PN shoots good with the right duplex or saboted bullets!
