Why the Randy Wakeman hate

[spearhead]

  So , not a good first post..
but have been following this board and modern muzzeloader boards for quite some time and thought I out and ask it..

I AM NOT trying to troll or stir the pot.


But I just don't get it..

Seems to offer good advice , or maybe its just my lack of experience ??

BTW - I do shoot a loose bored savage 10MLII

[10ga]

I don't think anybody on this board hates Wakeman. We are not catfish either. Yes he has some things to say but like I learned long ago, the rag writers are always trying to sell something and full and complete disclosure is not high on their list. JMHO, 10 ga

[153]

I knew and had work done by a gentleman(now passed) that was a excellent gunsmith and build some of the first SMLs. He would tell you to your face what he thought no punches pulled.
He had some business dealings with Randy and after his word for Randy was MERCENARY(a person primarily concerned with material reward at the expense of ethics).

[muzzleman 54]

lets all be friends. we all have are faults. we can learn from one another. that's why we are here. I never had a problem with anyone on this board. you all have been more than helpful. thanks. LOU.

[dannoboone]

There was a time (on the old green board) when a lot of us were having
trouble getting our 10MLII's to consistently shoot accurately. New ideas
started popping up and many of us successfully tried them. Edge came up
with a recessed breech plug. Rick Bibby (RIP, buddy) started coming up
with duplex loads, and was pressure testing loads to ensure that any post
he made about the loads was safe for everyone to try. He and others also
began installing custom .45 barrels which drastically improved everything
about the 10MLII ML's.

Then Wakeman showed up.

He was the "Pro", don't ya know? Everything being done to improve SML'ing
here was highly dangerous. We shouldn't be doing anything other than that
which had been done by Savage. Rick's testing was not up to standard, even
though all the book loads had been used for a base line of the equipment.
Duplex loads were outrageously dangerous and would eventually blow us all up.
At one point in time, any and every post about any kind of improvement was
attacked groundlessly by that know-it-all. I can't recall a worse time on
this board, even when Toby Bridges was having his trouble with Savage.

Had Wakeman had his way, and this board bowed down to him, it would have
gone the same way of the 10MLII board in which he moderated over at
Savage Shooters ----------------DEAD!!

[GMB54-120]

On another forum Randy was quite rude to several members. Rude to the point of being perma banned after several warnings. In all fairness he appears to be much improved since that time and far more polite.

His anti 45cal opinion also does not set well with many members here either.

My problem with him is his flip flopping. One day BC does not matter and the next a Barnes BO or Parker is awesome partially because of their BC. He has even flip flopped on powders such as N110. At one time it was the best thing since sliced bread, now it burns too fast and blows sabots easily. Kinda odd how this change occurred after the VV availability issues through Kaltron and other suppliers.

It seems to me his GOOD opinion is available to the highest bidder.

[rossman40]

I try to teach my kids by the Bambi rule, if you can't say something good about someone then don't say anything at all. HOWEVER, if you have been around for 15 years you would have seen the whole thing. A few of us still remember when he came on this board in the very early days and said we were all a bunch of stupid idiots for shooting smokeless powders in a ML and we would all end up blowing ourselves up. Some of the exchanges between Toby Bridges and RW were pretty heated, they got sent to their corners several times. Some may remember TB's "Adventures of Randy Weird" which were pretty comical. After TB's blow-up incident and his falling out with Savage and the Balls RW thought he would fall into the job but never did. He tangled with RB and even Edge on here on several occasions. We would have a pretty good thread going here and the next thing we would see is a article on the subject from RW with a lot of material that appeared to be from the thread. I did a post on taking the bolt apart on a 10ML-II for cleaning and RW came in on the Savage factory side saying the bolt should never taken apart and should never need cleaning. We would come up with a new powder to try and RW would tote the factory line on book powders only, yet his load of N120 (not a book powder) with the Barnes original was OK. When he became a moderator over on SavageShooter.com if he didn't like your post he would just delete it and if you called him on it he would deny it. Then he would answer a post with his answer and then lock the thread so no further comments could be made. The admin over there once asked me why I didn't become a paying member and I told him I thought I should get paid to deal with RW. His recent flub was with BH209 in the new Remy Ultimate.

In his defense he is pretty experienced, still there are some people around here with a lot more. As far as a gun rag writer I question the BS level but he is not as bad as some of the others. When you read an article and it boils down to the same words as the press release the manufacturer put out it makes you wonder.

[Deleted]

I don't think anyone here hates Wakeman, we just see him for what he is..

A short story
I got my first savage in 05 and like most I had trouble getting it to shoot well. After searching the net for answers I ran across the "Savage Guru".
I promptly called him up and had a short conversation with one of the biggest #%&holes that I've ever talked to, he knew it all and was THE AUTHORITY on the MLII. it only took a short time to see I wouldn't be listening to his expertise..

After continueing my search I found this board and discovered very quickly that sir Wakeman didn't know squat.

Hate? Far from it. We just see him for what he is

[spearhead]

Hey,

thanks for the heads up..
I will agree alot of Box MLII's don't shoot as well as we'd like..
My , dad and brother each have 1 and my dad's with tupperware stock shoots best while bro and I both that laminate..
I shoot all three guns for load development.
Guess what his bore is tighter than both of ours..

Maybe a new 45 cal barrel in my future..

teach me

Kyle

[edge]

IMO, most business folks don't act like Macy and Gimbel in Miracle on 34th Street, and if your a fan of Fords then don't go to a Chevy dealer

Salesmen make their money by touting products that pay them.
If you are interested in smokeless muzzleloading then come here or swinglock or hankins, etc.

IMO.

edge.

[153]

I am like a lot of others on here, don't hate Randy but tire of his BS. His way or the highway.
I think what is great about this board is no one is making a living on the board selling SML. Everyone tries with different barrels, bullets, powders, primers, sabots, etc. Give and show your honest results good or bad and we all learn together. If someone makes a mistake in safety it is also posted again so we all learn also from each other mistakes and make it safer for everyone. As of now all my ramrods have witness marks because of what was learned on this board. I made the jump to a 45 and duplexing because of the great info on this board.

[deadeye]

boy have I done wrong~ I have never used a "book load" even saboted & use the inferior .45.... Earnhardt-smile should do a show "the best of dmb"

I heard shockey/ritz had the most accurate/ powerful mz on planet earth

[rkrobson]

I must chime in here, 10-12 years ago I had a Savage ML II and needed a sub gun where I hunt out west. I started pursuing the Ultimate Firearms Muzzleloaders and went to the Shot Show as a guest just to meet the Ultimate team there, Johnston and Johnson and somebody else. I came away scratching my head as I was told 4 Pyro pellets could be digested in their gun with 2350 to 2400 fps with a 300 grain SST. Well before that RW had told me no muzzleloader could digest 4 pellets! I pursued this to the extent that Hodgdon put me in touch with their lab in Kansas, I believe, with the man who was involved with developing the pellet. Guess what, not only had they tested Kens Ultimates, but they proofed Knight rifles in the lab as well, and both rifles will digest 4 pellets, the Ultimate however is the only one that reccomends 4 pellets. I just say this, don't talk about what you don't know, goes for me as well. For anyones information here, I have built a Pac-nor 50 and one other that Iam testing now. So far nothing matches the Ultimate when using pellets. Don't get me wrong, Iam into Blackhorn and 45s, but I keep the 50s for loaners to my kids who are adults now. Rk

[jims]

:)Moderators/administrators: :)I think deadeye should be banned from this site and all postings. We cannot have any rogue/free thinking guys on this site. We must all strictly adhere to the factory line.
Now I hope nobody is taking the above seriously. The factory loads give someone a reasonable starting point and if happy one can just stay there. Fortunately there are some pioneers and experiments here that have tried and had success/failures but we are all the better for it in what we have learned.
I always think we have reached about as far as we can expect and then something new appears. Keeps it interesting certainly but requires expending more funds.

[Deleted]

I apologize If I came off a little harsh about RW, I normally never post anything harsh about anyone. It just ruffles my feathers when I hear his name mentioned and I started typing before I thought it through But Im not going to delete my post because its the truth..

[deadeye]

Dec 12, 2014 17:05:54 GMT -5 @hillbill said:

I apologize If I came off a little harsh about RW, I normally never post anything harsh about anyone. It just ruffles my feathers when I hear his name mentioned and I started typing before I thought it through But Im not going to delete my post because its the truth..

bill- I didn't find your post negative just truthful...of course we know you & admire your work/opinions etc............


we just got to find a way to sit hankins down a notch or 2 the next shoot

will rw be there?

[7mmfreak]

Bill,

Sometime you have to call a spade a spade. I have similar feelings about the guy....pedant, charlatan, or whatever you choose to call him.

[jims]

As they say in the law, truth is a defense.

[Dave W]

When a guy comes on a public board and calls people idiots because they do not agree with him, tends to rub people the wrong way.

[Deleted]

I've heard about his past ,but I've seen how he is double takin on the 700 ultimate...If I don't get it from here ..I don't believe it or question it...
Doug's is the development place for any ml following....Randy learns more here than he will admit to...

[bigmoose]

I like RW, so much I told him I look foward to running into him at a show, buy him dinner, an discuss his telling me I didn't know how to clean a rifle.
I would think a gent who spent three years in the Infantry, might know that. SMILE

[fishhawk]

Did his mamma love him?

[sparkman]

Dec 12, 2014 17:05:54 GMT -5 @hillbill said:

I apologize If I came off a little harsh about RW, I normally never post anything harsh about anyone. It just ruffles my feathers when I hear his name mentioned and I started typing before I thought it through But Im not going to delete my post because its the truth..

Always the gentleman Bill...
But truth is truth...

[muznut]

In my book anyone that tells a small muzzleloading company send me one of your rifles and ill do a review on it then never does it or send back or pay for the rife is a liar and a thief !! That happened about ten years ago so he had plenty of time to do what he said or pay for the rifle! I also think anyone that runs with ambulance chasers and uses the internet to try and extort money for peoples dumb loading mistakes is nothing but a big pile of steaming dog sh.. !!

[jeff]

Dec 20, 2014 8:24:53 GMT -5 muznut said:

In my book anyone that tells a small muzzleloading company send me one of your rifles and ill do a review on it then never does it or send back or pay for the rife is a liar and a thief !! That happened about ten years ago so he had plenty of time to do what he said or pay for the rifle! I also think anyone that runs with ambulance chasers and uses the internet to try and extort money for peoples dumb loading mistakes is nothing but a big pile of steaming dog sh.. !!

Now tell us how you really feel!

[pposey]

Yep,,, yep to about all the above