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Post by sw on Nov 16, 2014 14:48:32 GMT -5
I live where we have 2 weekends to "gun" hunt(certain pistols, MLers, Shotgun). I've mainly gone to Xbow(Matrix 380/405) which can stay at or below 2" @ 100 yds with Zombies and FOC broadheads. Living 2 mi from MO and living in AR, I limited out on bucks before "gun" season. My son and DiL haven't though so I set up my Slufoot modified HandiRifle(45-70) with a reduced load for her and used it in my 26" barreled 45 also. WOW! What a reduced load can do!!! The load: 31g VV-110/WW, smooth LB sabot, 195B,CCIm. Sub MOA thru 150(max tested). 2" hi@100, 1"hi @150. Less recoil than 410. Relatively quiet. Yesterday, I shot a doe thru lung area mid-way between top and lower part of chest of the deer. DRT! Classic Barnes performance. This was with the RB made OBO stocked 45. That afternoon, my son shot a nice, mature 8-pt thru both shoulders. Classic performance! Can't beat Barnes. This reduced load was very lethal. Didn't chrono it. DiL only has 1 tag left and has passed on some 8-9 pt 125-130" deer. She's a serious hunter. Summary, 31g VV-110(and likely 4759) works well. Later I'll chrono 30g -35g, maybe higher of VV-110 and 4759. Bought some 200XTPs yesterday just for this purpose. If your max range is 250yds, the lower loads might serve us well. Neither deer shot with 31g VV-110/195B were any less dead than if they'd been shot with a heavier/faster bullet. Son's deer. I realize poor picture. .  Son's dear. I realize a better picture.  |
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Post by rambler on Nov 16, 2014 15:07:55 GMT -5
Nice buck for sure!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 15:24:21 GMT -5
Thats a nice buck.
My son used 35gr SR4759 in his Apex conversion yesterday shooting a knurled 195MZ in a Harvester sabot. Very mild recoil. 40yd shot and the deer dropped on the spot. Entrance was high shoulder and exited low off shoulder into a tree.
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Post by edge on Nov 16, 2014 15:42:58 GMT -5
With a DEAR like that I'm surprised he goes hunting at all !
edge.
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Post by sw on Nov 16, 2014 15:45:27 GMT -5
I ever so slightly knurl the 200SSTs and 195Bs as there is a snug fit already. Me, Mr duplex proponent, will likely go to faster powder but slightly slower single powder loads in all my smokeless MLers. Less stress on gun/scopes, only slightly reduced trajectory, greater simplicity, possibly greater consistency,etc.
Plans: 50 cals - 250TMZ or 275 MH 42-45 4759 or VV-110., 45 cals - 195B, 31-35+ same powders, 40 - 200 SST , 40+gs 120,4198,2015 plus duplexes. One 45 will be for all out sabotless , duplex, 275 and 300 MH. It will be my only long range gun (275-400 yds). The 50s with 45gs of VV-110 and 275MH reaches out there very well. About 2380'/sec. Very accurate with wool wad under sabot(HPH12), lightly knurled. It is much more consistent than 45/195Bs with 10/50 duplex due to variable and crosswind effects. Just can't get around the <..20BC of the 195Bs. Even with much wind, the 195B(my favorite bullet) can have problems 100-200 yds.
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Post by sw on Nov 16, 2014 15:58:46 GMT -5
With a DEAR like that I'm surprised he goes hunting at all ! edge. Mark, My son is about as passionate deer hunter as there is. They had a terrible time recovering his 8-pt last night - long drag, freezing rain, up hill drag, etc. Left yesterday at 5AM got home 10:30 PM, soaking wet and cold. Asked her how she felt, "tired but ready to go back at 5AM". They're hunting where Zach killed his "big" deer with the same 45 3 years ago. Thanks, Steve  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 16:06:21 GMT -5
That's not a big buck at all...
It's a monster!!
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Post by edge on Nov 16, 2014 16:17:41 GMT -5
Looks like at least 18 points so I'd be excited too! Two good looking kids and a great buck to boot  edge. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 16:47:58 GMT -5
Nice deer congrats to him. Thanks for sharing your info.
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Post by 1coyotemaster on Nov 16, 2014 17:23:45 GMT -5
Good looking Deer/ear. I shot a load of 35/5744 with a 250 XTP in my old Savage MLII and it was plenty lethal and not too bad as far as recoil went, about like a 20 ga. with the tupperware stock.
Both Bucks are nice the one looks like a real dandy. Nice shooting on their parts.
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Post by ET on Nov 16, 2014 18:10:34 GMT -5
All around congrats for a successful hunt so far and best wishes for a grand finish. I do enjoy the way you’ve tailored bullet velocities for given conditions. I’m also confident to say the Patriarch of the family has passed along sound wisdom to the younger generation to make them so successful.  Ed |
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Post by jims on Nov 16, 2014 18:49:59 GMT -5
Good looking deer. Nice bow group and a nice looking family.
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Post by Richard on Nov 16, 2014 20:16:39 GMT -5
From the teeth/smile, you can tell her dad's a dentist .............Nice deer and kids Steve! Richard |
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Post by 153 on Nov 16, 2014 20:42:45 GMT -5
sw I have a load for my 11 year old son, he has been shooting this load for three years. 35 gr N110, light blue Harvester sabot, 195 Barnes(light knurl) and CCI209 mag primers in a Laminated Sav/Pac with 25" barrel. Speed is 2400 fps, recoil about like a 243. So far four deer shot, all four DRT. I shoot the 195 at 2675 fps in my Rem/Pac. I have thought about going sabot less but with the terminal performance and accuracy of the Barnes I see no need to change. The longest shot I would have is 275 yards, with most shot averaging 100 yards. Both guns are 1.5 or better MOA. Maybe if I lived or had access to land with longer shots sabot less would be needed but not as yet for me.
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Post by sw on Nov 16, 2014 21:49:41 GMT -5
  These pictures were taken yesterday. This is the actual picture of the 2nd deer(I killed a doe with it yesterday morning : this buck was killed in the afternoon) killed with the light load. The previous picture of the deer laying down, facing away was a previous year's 8-pt, bow kill of my son. I had inadvertently posted it. Thanks all of you for your kind comments. I come to this board for intellectual stimulation. I don't post much on Ozark's board as I feel out of my league with you guys (Y'all in Arkansas). "You guys" sounds a "little" effeminate . |
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Post by sw on Nov 16, 2014 23:11:46 GMT -5
sw I have a load for my 11 year old son, he has been shooting this load for three years. 35 gr N110, light blue Harvester sabot, 195 Barnes(light knurl) and CCI209 mag primers in a Laminated Sav/Pac with 25" barrel. Speed is 2400 fps, recoil about like a 243. So far four deer shot, all four DRT. I shoot the 195 at 2675 fps in my Rem/Pac. I have thought about going sabot less but with the terminal performance and accuracy of the Barnes I see no need to change. The longest shot I would have is 275 yards, with most shot averaging 100 yards. Both guns are 1.5 or better MOA. Maybe if I lived or had access to land with longer shots sabot less would be needed but not as yet for me. I expect to end up with that very load. I love the 195!!! Wish it were made as a TMZ. |
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Post by deertroy1 on Nov 17, 2014 14:34:37 GMT -5
Awesome photos. I'd be interested in how those lighter loads preform in cold temperatures. I was shooting a Savage 10ML-II last year with Hornady 250gr XTP, Harvester Smooth Black sabot, 40gr 5744 and W209. It shot wonderfully accurate in warm weather but as soon as the temps dipped below 32F velocities became very erratic and accuracy went out the window. I recently picked up some N110 and SR4759 but I'm reluctant to try any light loads.
Let us know how they shoot in colder temps.
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Post by donw28 on Nov 17, 2014 15:46:24 GMT -5
Does anyone know if 4759 is useable as a direct substitute for N110? I.E. can I use 31 grains with the 195 Barnes safely? I'd like to try these in my wife's gun Wednesday.
Don
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Post by rangeball on Nov 17, 2014 16:03:29 GMT -5
I think you can use a grain or two more of the 4759 which should make it pretty close.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 16:11:04 GMT -5
Does anyone know if 4759 is useable as a direct substitute for N110? I.E. can I use 31 grains with the 195 Barnes safely? I'd like to try these in my wife's gun Wednesday. Don As listed above my sons load is 35gr SR4759. He shoots 195mz and 200gr SST's. Mild recoil. |
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Post by bluedog on Nov 17, 2014 16:59:32 GMT -5
I shoot 43 grains of 4759 with the the 195B and light blue Harverster w/Win 209 out of my Apex conversion with very good accuracy. I can not see how 31 grains could be a safety concern.
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Post by rambler on Nov 17, 2014 17:11:24 GMT -5
I shoot 43 grains of 4759 with the the 195B and light blue Harverster w/Win 209 out of my Apex conversion with very good accuracy. I can not see how 31 grains could be a safety concern. Have you or anyone else used 4759 as a single for sabotless loads? |
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Post by muznut on Nov 17, 2014 20:16:16 GMT -5
Yes, I shoot 33 to 35gr of IMR4759 sabotless with a 250gr XTP in my 45's and it makes one ragged hole groups, I have gone as high as 40gr but don't see the need for where I hunt. Another light recoiling load is 40 to 42gr of Ac5744 and a 200gr xtp with a harvester smooth blue, very accurate and speed with a 24 barrel was 2262+ with the 42grs.
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Post by pposey on Nov 17, 2014 23:08:25 GMT -5
While my shoulder was recouping from getting smushed I used 31 grains IMR 4759, 200XTP, light blue harv. Winchester 209 shotshell primer. I didn't think that there was a need for a 209M primer with 4759 in a .45,,,, one hole groups at 75 yards
I think I was getting 2,000-2100fps,, above 32 grains I started having sabot problems and accuracy dropped,,, was a pacnor 45,, 21 inch barrel
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Post by bluedog on Nov 18, 2014 7:04:40 GMT -5
I have shot up to 43 grains 4759 in my Apex 45-70 conversion using the 250 TEZ and wool wad. I would not call this a 'light' recoiling load in the light weight rifle. I do not know the speed but i know that it was not as accurate as the duplex of 10/48 4759/4198 that i settled on for shooting sabotless out of my rifle. For sabot shooting w/ the 195 Barnes, I stayed with the straight 43 grains of 4759P, very accurate and my chrony says 2400 fps, would not call it a 'light' kicker out of the Apex but it is certainly NOT heavy recoil, very tolerable. That is my experience using my rifle.
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Post by cowhunter on Nov 18, 2014 12:25:16 GMT -5
Great stories. What is a zombie and an FOC broad head? Is that group shown in the target shot from 100 yards? I guess crossbows have changed since I made one in shop.
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Post by Dave W on Nov 18, 2014 14:02:00 GMT -5
I shoot 43 grains of 4759 with the the 195B and light blue Harverster w/Win 209 out of my Apex conversion with very good accuracy. I can not see how 31 grains could be a safety concern. Have you or anyone else used 4759 as a single for sabotless loads? TG has done quite a few traces sabotless with 4759 and N110. I have shot both those powders sabotless as well. Great looking deer and family! |
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Post by sw on Nov 19, 2014 21:39:49 GMT -5
A Zombie is a very stiff Black Diamond arrow shaft. A FOC broad head is an expandable 3", 2-blade , NAP . Very accurate and terminally effective/devastating.
In a 45 cal barrel, 35g of 4759 or VV-110 is in the pressure vicinity of 42+ g of the same powders in the 50 cal/250g bullets. Having read these posts, I'll likely chrono VV-110 and SR4759 loads from 31g -40+ gs. I'd think 35gs in the 45 would be relatively temp stable.
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Post by rambler on Nov 19, 2014 21:58:14 GMT -5
I may be shooting some 300SST's sabotless with 38GR of SR4759 tomorrow weather permitting. I don't have a chrono but I think it will be an interesting combo.
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Dec 2, 2014 17:33:09 GMT -5
Check out PT 22j that TGinPA did for me today. Thank you TGinPA.
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