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Post by stanb8 on Oct 28, 2014 12:44:49 GMT -5
Just curious, I see a lot of load info. on here and don't want to use a load which is meant for center fire only. I would think the barrel would determine most of the potential load . Also does a stock savage ml have the same load capabilities as a rem/pac or rem/brux. Better ask a dumb question, than to be dead tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 14:07:50 GMT -5
Imo its the plug and the contour of the barrel....The Hankin's ignition/plug has been proven to hold up 78gns of i4198 under a 275 be....I haven't seen many others with the savage plug going that high except Earnhardt and that's just how he rolls....The stock Savage is .50 compared to the .45 rem pacs and pacage.... If you are going to shoot heavy loads then buy a gun DESIGNED to do it....The stock .50 savages were made to shoot saboted which realistically has a pressure ceiling of 32 to 34k/psi or sabot failure happens....These guys shooting sabotless range from 42k/psi. and higher.....Great question and I hope I filled you in on my take of it...... |
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Post by fishhawk on Oct 28, 2014 15:01:59 GMT -5
Most of the 700 centerfire or ML barrels are .45 or smaller which helps wall thickness. A Remington barrel is typically 1.20" or larger at the lug. A Savage small shank is 1.05" at the nut. The two factors combined make the Remington safer IMO. I've not heard of a Savage or other smokeless plug ever blowing out. In fact Luke blew up his pride and joy Remington with a suspected double load, and it ripped the barrels threaded tenon out of the action forward of the breechplug. The barrel was a marginally light Sendero contour with fluting. For sabotless shooting I recommend a heavier contour. Many of our loads match those of a centerfire but ask around before trying anything big.
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Post by yule on Oct 28, 2014 18:03:13 GMT -5
To be safe, I would say no. There are a lot of factors to consider... Sabot or sabotless ? Bullet weight? What type powder ? Single or duplex load? Velocity is great, but safe and accurate loads win every time. I have no trouble shooting through deer with moderate loads. JMO
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Post by leftydeadeye on Oct 28, 2014 22:51:55 GMT -5
www.randywakeman.com/ballltd30.htm On this sight, Randy Wakeman states that the Savage 10 ML barrel and Breach Plug have been tested without failure to 129,000 PSI. In a Center-fire cartridge rifle the bolt, barrel, action surrounding the barrel threads, and locking lugs must handle the pressure forces that the action must endure. In the case of a 700 ML or a 10 Ml, the pressure forces must be handled by the barrel, treads of the internal barrel, the action surrounding the outer threads of the barrel, breach plug, and the vent liner. . It is my belief that the actions are equally strong and the rest of the parts as well, if this listed test pressure is accurate, which I believe is true also. Kent
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Post by cowhunter on Oct 28, 2014 23:19:40 GMT -5
We know of two paid experts who claim that some Savage stainless barrels were made with inferior metal and are further weakened by sight holes. The question is how weak? Weaker than a cannon? I guess we can say weaker than if those alleged defects were not present. I would guess that a Savage is still a very strong gun able to withstand double loads. OK, we know of Savages that have withstood double loading with only bulging right?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 6:44:44 GMT -5
www.randywakeman.com/ballltd30.htm On this sight, Randy Wakeman states that the Savage 10 ML barrel and Breach Plug have been tested without failure to 129,000 PSI. In a Center-fire cartridge rifle the bolt, barrel, action surrounding the barrel threads, and locking lugs must handle the pressure forces that the action must endure. In the case of a 700 ML or a 10 Ml, the pressure forces must be handled by the barrel, treads of the internal barrel, the action surrounding the outer threads of the barrel, breach plug, and the vent liner. . It is my belief that the actions are equally strong and the rest of the parts as well, if this listed test pressure is accurate, which I believe is true also. Kent I know your new here...but we don't really care what R W has to say.....there have been some issues arise in the past year since the sabotless game has been ramped up and safety is our main concern ,so we would rather be more safe than sorry.... |
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Post by stanb8 on Oct 29, 2014 8:48:24 GMT -5
Great info., but bottom line and really what I want is what would be a safe range of h4198 in a stock savage muzzleloader and safe range in a rem/brux pushing a 275 to 300 grain bullet. I have these two guns and do not want to exceed a safe load. I know one gun will possibly shot better with less load and just want to stay within a safe range. No liability will be on someone's opinion. Looking at around 70 gr. of h4178 in the rem/brux.
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Post by rambler on Oct 29, 2014 9:08:18 GMT -5
Great info., but bottom line and really what I want is what would be a safe range of h4198 in a stock savage muzzleloader and safe range in a rem/brux pushing a 275 to 300 grain bullet. I have these two guns and do not want to exceed a safe load. I know one gun will possibly shot better with less load and just want to stay within a safe range. No liability will be on someone's opinion. Looking at around 70 gr. of h4178 in the rem/brux. I'm shooting 70gr of IMR4198 with a 275BE in my H&R/Douglas with good success. With 65gr of 4198 and a 300SST it kicks like a rabid mule but that's just part of the game sometimes. |
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Post by hemicuda on Oct 29, 2014 13:25:46 GMT -5
Just work up a load until your shoulder can't take it, you'll be okay! JMHO You will probably be plenty happy with 65gr. 4198
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Post by leftydeadeye on Oct 29, 2014 13:41:26 GMT -5
Yes I am new here. But Ive made my living dealing with pressure and the reactions of such. I agree the factory barrels on SMLs could be inferior to that of a centerfire. I wouldn't consider using one for whats going on here, but I failed to mention that. The safety factor is certainly the most important one. Old RW must have caused a sore here somewhere. Imagine that. Kent
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Post by stanb8 on Oct 29, 2014 14:07:48 GMT -5
I will be using a lead sled until I go hunting, I will take a few shots after I get my load right w/o the lead sled just to see if it will throw me out the tree. I have had no trouble with the savage, but the adrenaline starts flowing when old mossy horns comes by. Thanks for all the replies.
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Post by dannoboone on Oct 29, 2014 17:16:28 GMT -5
A good guess is that your shoulder will give before your heavy barreled .45. Have you looked at TGinPA's pressure traces? Stay within those listed loads and you should be fine (although some of them are waaaay to stout for my ol' shoulder). Old RW must have caused a sore here somewhere. Imagine that. Kent Gee, ya think? Mr. "Legend-in-his-own-mind" does that practically every forum he's been on. If it's not in the book, it's dangerous. But the book is still being written here on this forum.  |
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Post by esshup on Oct 30, 2014 12:06:54 GMT -5
Danno, remember the stink about duplex loads in a ML? IIRC it was during the first or 2nd hog hunt at Loshbough where I was shooting a duplex load that RB had worked up. RW was on the hunt too, and no way did I say what was pushing the 350g Barnex "X" bullet.
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