FF/Smooth sizing newbie questions.

[vtecgsr95]

So I finally picked up my FF/Smooth die combo. I am just getting ready to order a press.....thinking the RCBS Rockchucker.

So I understand the smooth side of things.....adjust as needed, may have to pass thru a few times at different sizes depending on the bullet/jacket.

When it comes to FF sizing, in my case I am using 275 Match Hunters....but I also have some Hornady 250 SST/FTX? bullets I picked up last year.

Can these be passed straight through the FF die, or do I need to size them smaller before even attempting to push them through?

Excuse my newbishness....just trying not to tear things up!

Also, I have read a lot about folks annealing some bullets to make them pass thru.....how does a guy know which bullets do and dont require this extra effort?

Thanks again for any info anyone would like to share!

Also taking suggestions of other press options......the rock chucker is $150 shipped on Amazon.....

[gar]

Rockchucker press is fine. Only solid coppers need annealing. The match Hunters and the ftx's will only be impressed by the rifling 1 or 2 thousandth's . the full form portion of the die is generally used for .458 diam. bullets like Luke's 310 APB or BO's and the 325 FTX.

[Deleted]

I use a rock chucker and I size a good many bullets for different barrels
the .451-.452 bullets need to be smooth sized and shot as land riders while any of the .458s need to be full formed.
I know some full form the .451s and some even knurl and then FF but I dont see the advantage of doing so.
I do like the FF .458s however and they do really well.

the all coppers such as the barnes and CE bullets need to be annealed to push through the rock chucker, it just dont have enough heft to get it done unannealed.

[Deleted]

What barrel will you be using? (Brand, land/groove, twist?) The Rockchucker should serve you fine, just make sure you use good bullet lube and make sure the press is anchored down FIRMLY. As gar mentioned, the FF will be used on bullets such as Lukes .458's and you may have to run them thru more than once to see what your gun prefers, the .452 stuff that you smooth size will be trial and error until you see what fits your gun best and what it shoots best. Just remember, when your checking for bullet/barrel fit and you have a clean barrel, the bullets may tighten up substantially once your bore is fouled.. gar also mentioned only solid coppers will need annealing, I agree.
The key is get that press mounted down to something very sturdy so you get no flex in the press and use lube on each and every bullet. (My press is anchored down to two pieces of 3/8 plate, and the plates are anchored to my bench top with 3/4" bolts, which is just shy of 3" thick, it does not flex at all)
If you are shooting a 450 or 451 barrel, your sizing will go pretty easy with the bullets you have mentioned. When you jump up to full forming the 458's, some more force will be required to get them thru.
I'd also recommend using a wad under your smooth formed bullets (try veggie and wool to see what works best for you) the full formed bullets may not require a wad.
Hope this helps and good luck.

[Deleted]

Smooth form is pretty easy and remember you won't be able to smooth form .458 size bullets.

I know some say full forming .451 bullets is a waste of time but for me I like the results. Here is my reason, my barrel is choked and the first 2-3" of my barrel if the bullet is sized where it's has good pressure all the way down the barrel there is no way I can get past the choked part. So I knurl my bullets up as much as I can then run them threw the correct size on a full form sizer. Then when I push the bullet form the barrel it is consistent all the way down the barrel like the choke is gone. Also the bullet is already close to being obturated into the rifling and it only has to obturate a little bit to finish filling in the rifling. My last range session with the 250 ftx/sst I pretty much shot a one holer at 100 yards by knurling them up and then full forming them. It works for me but maybe not someone else.

[vtecgsr95]

OK......so for clarification, IF I decide to FF, I ONLY need to run the bullet through the FF die, no other resizing needed?

I understand land riders getting close as you can with each barrel.....and I may try this route as I have had good success so far with the MH's Luke smooth sized for me when he built the gun.

[Deleted]

You might need to run the bullet a couple times threw the full form but once you find the right size with full form you should only need to run threw once. At least that is what is working for me with a .458 bullet.

[vtecgsr95]

OK, so even with FF I am still also adjusting the resizing portion of the die? I was thinking the barrel drop pretty much sized it properly when it passed through?

[Deleted]

You will still need to adjust your die for full forming to achieve proper bullet fit. Bullets spring back some after coming out of the die, some more than others.

[Deleted]

all the barrel drop does is engrave the bullet, the die adjusts the dia as it exits the barrel drop by squeezing the back edge of the drop as it passes through.

I always push my bullets through the die twice to get consistent sizing..
bullet alignment on the second pass is the only tricky part but is very doable..

[vtecgsr95]

OK guys, thanks!

I found the rockchucker at Brownells for $119 shipped, so I got one coming!

[rickyb]

tag for later

[cowhunter]

Vtec: Sorry to chime in late. Everyone has given good advice If I were just atarting I would try to find a Redding Ultra Mag press. If anyone has used both, let us know the difference. I also have the Rockchucker. Keep in mind that for some reason, it seems like you have to size about 10 bullets before a die works smoothly. Also put a 2x4 or 4x4 from the bottom of the press to the floor. Get a cheater pipe to put over the handle for tough bullets. Unscrew the die about 3/4ths out to get leverage on tough bullets.

[super7]

I bought a cheap arbor press from harbor freight for $40.00 bucks that is so much easier than my reloading press. I just turn the die over and push the bullet down. I can carry it with me to the range for easy on the fly adjustment if things get tight or loose. We had 3 different guns that all take different size bullets. I was knurling 250 TEZ's and pushing without annealing for 1 gun and straight 250 SST/FTX for the other 2 guns. My guns have a 1 and 20 twist and that is what my barrel drop ff die is made from. The 3 guns we were shooting 2 are pacnors and 1 is McGowan are 1 and 22 twist and my die worked just fine even with the slightly different barrel twist.

[rangeball]

One thing to watch with an arbor press and non annealed solid is cracking the sizing ring.

Interesting on the die working for different twists. I had wondered about that.

[super7]

If I was sizing .458 solid copper I would worry more. We had to knurl just to start otherwise the just fell down the bore. Also I wondered about the difference in twist before we started and I said there is so little difference in angle over such a long distance of bore it shouldn't matter. I was right so far, I couldn't tell any difference in the way they felt going down the bore.

[rangeball]

Oct 16, 2014 16:54:47 GMT -5 super7 said:

If I was sizing .458 solid copper I would worry more. We had to knurl just to start otherwise the just fell down the bore.

I figured when I read TEZ just adding a clarification for anyone that reads this down the road or doesn't make the connection. I was able to size a .458 barnes through my reloading press and was right on the edge pressure was I think. Annealed they slid through with half the effort.

[1gifford]

Super7 You wouldn't have any pictures of your arbor press setup would you???

I like the idea of the arbor press but was advised the die was too big for an arbor press.
I had the idea of taking a steel plate and tapping it for the die........but that's a pretty big tap!

[Jon]

I'm sure I'm going to get criticized for this but here goes any way. Understand I'm not good at wording things. On my 2 ton arbor press I didn't get fancy I just drilled a clearance hole in a scrap piece of 3/4in. SS and set the die on it. I also have a rock chucker for the easy stuff.

[super7]

I don't have a picture of the setup, but the arbor press has a plate that has 4 different size slots to allow things to drop through. I just mark my bullet with a sharpie (just in case I need to run it through a 2nd time) and line it up with a line on the bottom now top of the die and drop it in. I then take the plunger piece and drop it in and slide the whole thing under the press. With the die turned upside down (threads up) I just center it over a slot and the sized bullet falls on the table. The die is free to move around on the plate not locked in. Once you get the procedure down it runs quite smooth. Maybe about the same speed as a reloading press because there is less effort to size the bullet.

[hankinsrfls]

Oct 17, 2014 10:22:56 GMT -5 1gifford said:

Super7 You wouldn't have any pictures of your arbor press setup would you???

I like the idea of the arbor press but was advised the die was too big for an arbor press.
I had the idea of taking a steel plate and tapping it for the die........but that's a pretty big tap!

It's a 7/8-14. Jeff