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Post by Richard on Sept 30, 2014 17:07:30 GMT -5
Mystery solved! The single powder load problem in Richard’s .45 Rem/Pac has been solved………..Not enough fire along with loose bullets. The morning started out at 64* and foggy. I started off with a fouler shot using a 250 gr. Nosler HP, previously moly coated with a 5/60 Clays/H-4198 duplex at 2657 fps and a (s) sticky primer. Next up I went to a 290 TEZ that I had played with at home by knurling and then sizing to .4508”. Too tight! I had put in a 10/60 Clays/4198 duplex and started the bullet. Had to pound on the short spin jag starter and really put all my 190 lbs on the t-handle rod to “getter-down!”……….Vel=2633 fps. For the first group I used that same 290 TEZ but with out sizing…………One hand seating. Same duplex. Average velocity 2636 for three shots and a .776” group. So, as hard as that first knurled bullet was to get down, its velocity did not reflect any noticeable difference. So, here is where the mystery is solved: A 275 Ballistic Extreme (no sizing) easy seating with the same 75 gr. of H-4198 I used last week only this time, I used a CCI Mag. primer. As you can see, no problem with ignition with thrtee shots averaging 2743 fps with a 28 fps ES and a 1.2” group. To further test I used the same 75 gr. of H-4198 and a 250 gr. Nosler (moly) HP and CCI Mag. primer…………..No problem with ignition but large spread in velocity (only captured shots 2 & 3) along with a 1.2” group. Note: These CCI Mag primers do not seal as well as the Winchester 209’s. The bottom half on most are well blackened. Sticky primers are still a on again/off again issue. So now I take the same 250 Nosler bullet, Win. 209 primer and hit it with a 5/62 Clays/H-4198 duplex. My average velocity is 2668 with an ES of 12 fps. These three shots go 1.4”…………………….I then put in another of the same load but use a CCI Mag. primer to see what if any difference??? The velocity was 2672 fps…….only four fps faster than the three shot average using a standard primer. The fourth shot impacted slightly higher. And finally, I went to 300 yards with the unsized TEZ and a 10/60 Clays/H-4198 duplex. Average velocity was 2639 fps with a…………….Four point three (4.3 fps) ES and a 2.8” four shot group. So, its good to know why I was having a problem but never the less I would still stick to shooting duplex loads. Richard   |
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Post by rambler on Sept 30, 2014 17:11:52 GMT -5
Holy drumstick, are those live turkeys or decoys?
Nice report and awesome range BTW
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Post by Richard on Sept 30, 2014 18:30:39 GMT -5
That is the real deal. We shot over their heads and they just hung around. That berm to the right is 50 yds. so you can tell how close they were. Usually they wander across the 100, 200 or 300 yard berms.
Richard
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Post by jims on Sept 30, 2014 20:28:59 GMT -5
When you hunt them they do not act like that.
I use mag primers and duplex, so that seems like the safe fire combination? I cannot recall ever having a misfire with that.
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Post by Richard on Sept 30, 2014 21:09:00 GMT -5
Jims...........as you can see, I did use a mag primer for the last shot in group #4 and it made no difference in velocity? I will continue using standard Win. 209's with all my duplex loads. They do seal better also.
Richard
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 23:28:36 GMT -5
So the magnum primers soles all the ignition problems with the .040" bushing with the 7/32" PFC?
In the last series, the boosted load acted no different with the standard vs. magnum primer? So a boosted load doesn't need a magnum primer?
Anybody else out there use non-magnum primers with boosted or non-boosted loads?
Can you try 3 shots next week with 3031 and magnum primers? Win or CCI...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 7:17:21 GMT -5
On Monday I shot 9 ttimes, 6 shots 73 grains straight IMR 4198 3 shots were with 275 BE's which were loose. 3 shots where with 250 SST knurled up then full formed yet they were still not tight but some what loose. Last was 3 shots of 65 grains IMR 3031 straight shooting a 350 grain hot core and they loaded with one hand loading pressure. All shots were with win 209 primers and with the modified breech plug with large flame channel and .o4o bushing. I didn't have any ignition problems and the 250 SST printed my best group with this rifle.
At this moment the new breech plug with the large flame channel and .o4o bushing has proved to be a great investment. I have yet to have any miss fires and is good to great. I've only shot 16 times with new breech plug however again no miss fires. Just my experience.
All shots were with Win209 primers.
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Post by Richard on Oct 1, 2014 8:12:45 GMT -5
I definitely think that it is in my barrel. The last 6" or so prior to the bullet seating feels noticeably looser than when it first goes down. Therefore the mag primer takes over for the lack of pressure in igniting the charge. With the duplex, its a "no brainer!" Any bit of a spark will light up the Clays which in turn light up the slower main charge. I also think the reliable/consistent ignition contributes to lower ES's which was definitely evident in that 300 yard group plus several of the others. The duplex load is kind of like an American Express Card.............."Don't leave home (or enter the woods) with out it!"  Yes, Josh, it will try the 3031. How much would you like me to use with a 275 BE? Richard |
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Post by rangeball on Oct 1, 2014 8:40:27 GMT -5
Anybody else out there use non-magnum primers with boosted or non-boosted loads? Zen and Luke, with the .040 bushing and 14/64 PFC, no problems. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 9:00:21 GMT -5
Something I think I'll try is size some bullets that will fall down the barrel and see if they ignite. I am using wool wads not sure if that makes a difference. I know Zen uses wool wads also, he makes and supplies wool wads for him and me.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Oct 2, 2014 6:57:44 GMT -5
Richard.. Looks like its time for a new barrel. 3000 plus shots from one is probably about getting to the max life expectancy of the rifling. All those hot boosted powders may have helped burn it out a little faster but either way at 3000 shots I would say you got your money's worth from it..
Install a new Brux barrel and start enjoying the ability to shoot those one holers again... Jeff.
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Post by Richard on Oct 2, 2014 8:13:17 GMT -5
Love your sense of humor Hank! Actually, that barrel has always been that way? Never had a major issue with it since I most always shoot duplex loads. I have shot saboted loads with singles and no problem but always gravitated toward the duplex. Just think the duplex has more merritt in its makeup, than a single? Different strokes for different folks:) And shooting moa or sub moa at 300 does not make it a bad barrel! I love my Brux CF barrel and in fact, have a brandy new 8.5 x .236" sitting on the shelf just waiting for my present one to go south..........although that does not look it will be in the near future since it is still shooting competitively at 1600 rounds............But, when this PN does take a S_ _T? I would probably go with a Brux:) I just don't think the AVERAGE shooter/hunter will see a difference on in their kill ration.........one vs. the other. Just an opinion mind you. Richard |
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Post by hankinsrfls on Oct 2, 2014 8:25:55 GMT -5
Richard. I agree with you as for hunting barrels one is as good as the other, but for a little edge in competitive shooting or testing accuracy I believe the Brux or Krieger will show superiority. Jeff...
3000 shots is a lot for any barrel, no matter who makes it...
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Post by edge on Oct 2, 2014 8:41:32 GMT -5
SNIP. 3000 shots is a lot for any barrel, no matter who makes it... Would that mainly be just the throat? If I had a 1 1/4 straight tube 30 inches long and "shot out" the barrel is the 30" toast, or could I not say take off 3 inches at the breech and have a perfectly functional 27" rifle? edge. |
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Post by hankinsrfls on Oct 2, 2014 9:48:34 GMT -5
Edge.. Yes you can cut off a few inches and re-chamber the barrel for almost new performance.. That is why most bench rest shooters prefer to use straight 1.200 barrels.. They can cut off what's needed and re-chamber and they are ready to go. But if Richards barrel is burned out or loose the last 6 inches or so it would be pretty short when cut off and re-chambered, but on the other hand, the remaining portion of the barrel might work for a light weight walking, woods rifle or maybe a candidate for a Thompson encore replacement.. Jeff.
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Post by Richard on Oct 2, 2014 10:28:45 GMT -5
Hank.............Yes 3,000 might seem like a lot of shots.................In a center fire barrel where a bullet is "forced" to conform to the grove diameter but in a ML with sabots and land riders I don't think it applies? I think when that barrel was made it was just lapped that way? Maybe now, these companies making the barrels for us have been informed that diameters need to be at least even...............muzzle to breech or at the very least, slightly tighter in the breech end. I think we may have somewhat educated them in regards to our needs. Like I said, I am not complaining? Would I prefer a barrel end to end the same? Of course! For me, who is not doing any competing will I scrap this barrel? No way, it shoots too good and gives me reliable information. I have got 1,000 CCI Magnum Primers on the shelf if I have need to shoot or test single powder loads..........but as far as my needs? What I have works great. You do recall that .244" FIVE shot group I fired a few weeks ago? DEFINITELY NOT a shot out barrel. You definitely have a great system and I applaud you for its design. The question is do I need that for my informal ML shooting? I don't think so? Myself, Herman, Bill and occasionally Bobby have a good time doing what we do every Tuesday. I think my barrel provides plenty of good solid information for the majority of shooters on this forum. Should IBS decide to start a SML class of competition, your system and a Brux or Krieger barrel would be at the top of my list. BTW, the post office just delivered a $180.00 toy that might help with my 600 yard game. I am presently shooting an Edgewood Gator bag with an Edgewood front 3" rest on my Bald Eagle front pedestal. I had the opportunity to try a custom Protector Dr. rear bag with 5" long rabbit ears made with a new silver "slick" 3M material. I had the ears set to the rear of the bag and had it filled with heavy sand. I also had them make me a matching front 3" bag. To me, that is where I will spend the $$$$, not on replacing a perfectly good barrel. This is a good forum and I enjoy sharing information and also seeing what good stuff other come up with. Now to go to the shop and open he box!!!!!!!! Richard Different strokes for different folks:)  |
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Post by jims on Oct 2, 2014 11:55:55 GMT -5
IMO a muzzleloader and a centerfire have different wear potentials. I would surmise there is little "throat" erosion in a ML vs. a centerfire and perhaps more of the "erosion" for many comes from wear at the muzzle in loading if a bore guide is not utilized.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Oct 2, 2014 12:44:08 GMT -5
Richard.. You got all three bags for $180.00? That's a good deal and I like the looks of those bags.. Noting better that shooting from a good platform. Jeff.
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Post by Richard on Oct 2, 2014 21:09:01 GMT -5
Hank..........No, just the two Protector bags. That Dr. bag with the heavy sand weights 17 1/4 lbs. That Edgewood Gator is the one I am retiring or selling if anyone is interested. I just found that the Protector Dr. (the call it that because it sort of looks like an old doctors bag) fit my stock better. Plenty of the guys are using the Gator bags. Its an individual thing.
Jims........with a decent bore guide, wear and tear on the muzzle is minimal. Its easy if need be to lop off a quarter inch and re-crown.
Richard
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