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Post by wayles on Sept 10, 2014 19:22:17 GMT -5
Don't really have the need but the weather is starting to finally cool off here in South West Missouri [shell knob] and I was thinkin maybe I should explore sabotless. Presently shoot a 25 inch barrel Rempac and the standard 62 grains of h4198, 200 grain sst and the 195 barns both with the smooth blue sabot. Approx. fps of 2650. Accuracy could not be much better. I don't shoot during hot weather but I would like to in the fall/ spring maybe and was wondering how the recoil would compare with a 250 gr SST and the appropriate amount of 4198 to get it up to 2400 to 2500 fps. Sounds like it would be considerable increase in felt recoil ?
Wayles
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Post by rambler on Sept 10, 2014 19:27:58 GMT -5
I shoot a break open with a 26" Douglas barrel. 2 days ago I shot 4 or 5 250FTX's with 60gr IMR4198. No prob at all. Very tolerable. Shot same amount of powder with 300SST and 275BE.... All were well within acceptable limits of brutality  I have a Limb saver sissy pad that helps. |
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Post by rambler on Sept 10, 2014 19:28:59 GMT -5
Sorry, all bullets sabotless. No sabots down my barrel.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 19:34:16 GMT -5
Recoil should still be pretty light with what you're looking to accomplish.
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Post by rambler on Sept 10, 2014 19:35:38 GMT -5
I forgot, typically load recommendations are done via PM's.
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Post by speedrackin on Sept 10, 2014 19:52:16 GMT -5
Rambler u chrono any of those?
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Post by rambler on Sept 10, 2014 19:55:47 GMT -5
Rambler u chrono any of those? I have yet to acquire a chrono or a range finder. they are on the critical need to have list lol |
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Post by Alabama on Sept 10, 2014 19:59:42 GMT -5
Probably the most
Useful piece of equipment I have is a rangefinder. My distance judging is way off!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 20:03:25 GMT -5
Hey Wayne...
Good to see you're still kickin out there in Missouri... I've never shot straight H4198 with the 250FTX..I would start about 65 gns and work it up to 70gns. I had really good results with 10/58 4759/H4198 with that bullet...About 2700fps. With the booster you'll get reliable ignition and good bullet obturation...
Are you coming out this year? If you do look me up.
Zen
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Post by jims on Sept 10, 2014 21:15:58 GMT -5
Wayles: I shoot some sabotless but if you are getting that speed with good accuracy you might just consider staying with the sabots. The Barnes 195s are good deer killers and the 200 SSTs have worked well for me also, even a bit more accurate.
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Post by cowhunter on Sept 10, 2014 23:35:55 GMT -5
I hate to be blunt, but sabots are not a good idea with a .45 unless you have very special circumstances. Think about it. Do any of the custom gun makers shoot sabots? They would laugh at the very idea. If you shoot a compound bow you use a trigger mechanism or do you use leather finger tabs? Sabots are like leather finger tabs. They just don't fit the technology. I don't know where people got the idea that sabots are easier or that you should start out with sabots. That's like saying you should start out with three finger leather tabs because it is easier.
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Post by jims on Sept 11, 2014 1:06:51 GMT -5
Our military use sabots currently with some of their projectiles. Rossman can provide that I am sure. I also shoot sabotless but for many the ease of using a sabot and with deer enough accuracy it is a viable method. No dies are required or the costs of the same. Although most do not have the access to the same the sabot that edge uses is a thing of beauty although it has its own cleaning issues etc.
Sabots are not for everyone but they still have their place. There are a great deal of .45 sabots sold, most 45s commercially sold today are designed for sabots. We are a special breed here always pushing the envelope but for many that is what is used IMHO.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Sept 11, 2014 5:04:50 GMT -5
Yes, jims, the sabot is used by the military for some applications and with good effect; in particular for a specialty .50 BMG round and tank rounds. I think the sabot is a good thing if you wish to shoot a lighter recoiling load. I have only used them in the .50 to take advantage of the Parker bullets. They do have some disadvantages but they have their place. Like anything else, pick the best tool for the job.
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Post by rambler on Sept 11, 2014 5:07:12 GMT -5
I shoot sabotless just from a purest stand point. To each their own.
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Post by madcityhoosier on Sept 11, 2014 5:51:40 GMT -5
I hate to be blunt, but sabots are not a good idea with a .45 unless you have very special circumstances. Think about it. Do any of the custom gun makers shoot sabots? They would laugh at the very idea. If you shoot a compound bow you use a trigger mechanism or do you use leather finger tabs? Sabots are like leather finger tabs. They just don't fit the technology. I don't know where people got the idea that sabots are easier or that you should start out with sabots. That's like saying you should start out with three finger leather tabs because it is easier. Beginning archers *should* start with a tab. Shooting with fingers and a light weight bow allows me to teach some really important fundamentals like anchor point, back tension, bow arm position, riser torque, etc without the added stress of a hair trigger in the mix. Just my opinion. Sabots are fine in a .45, or whatever caliber you've got. There are limitations...understand them and live with them if you're willing. I've had sub-MOA to right at MOA groups with my sabot loads out to 500 yards, and I've shot in 90 degree heat without issue. I don't find it too limiting to shoot sabots, but maybe that's because my goals are not as lofty as yours. The custom makers are trying to draw a crowd by pushing the upper limit on speed and power, and there lies the advantage of sabotless. Again, my opinion. Wayles, I've been dabbling with sabotless for 6 months now, but have yet to settle on the ideal setup. I'm shooting mostly full-formed 300 grain .458 bullets. At moderate speeds (2500-2600 fps) I don't find the recoil all that different than my sabot load (10/51 4759/H4198 with 200SST in Harvester Blue, MV of 2845fps). I've shot some 300 grainers at speeds approaching the mid 2800's, and that's about where I drew the line on comfort. My rifle weighs about 13.5 pounds, so I've got plenty of mass to help me out. |
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Post by bestill on Sept 11, 2014 6:26:27 GMT -5
Wayles,
One main consideration with sabotless is yes recoil increases with additional bullet weight but the also huge increase in sustained energy and better B.C.
The small40 cal bullet drop off extremely fast past 200 yds. Where the high B.C. 45 cal keep charging on and way better in wind.
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Post by dannoboone on Sept 11, 2014 11:35:26 GMT -5
Hello from a fellow ex-Nebraskan. We're going into the time of the year I really miss my birth-state. Good to see you posting again! Are your shots probably going to be 200yds or less? If so, you've already got all the killing power needed. Seems like people who have used both the 200 & 250SST's have had fewer wounded deer with the 200SST's. Doing what many of us are doing requires at least the 275grMH for dependable, accurate 300yd+ shooting/hunting at the cost of quite a bit more recoil, not to mention out-of-pocket expense!! People here are either crazy, or the pioneering spirit is alive and well. I tend to think the latter.  |
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Post by wayles on Sept 12, 2014 20:00:14 GMT -5
Thanks to every body for their input. Lots of food for thought. Zen I do believe I will come out for center fire or ml. You use a smooth Die?
wayles
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 20:40:21 GMT -5
Thanks to every body for their input. Lots of food for thought. Zen I do believe I will come out for center fire or ml. You use a smooth Die? wayles Wayne.... Sent you a PM Zen |
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Post by pposey on Sept 13, 2014 9:38:01 GMT -5
I hate to be blunt, but sabots are not a good idea with a .45 unless you have very special circumstances. Think about it. Do any of the custom gun makers shoot sabots? They would laugh at the very idea. If you shoot a compound bow you use a trigger mechanism or do you use leather finger tabs? Sabots are like leather finger tabs. They just don't fit the technology. I don't know where people got the idea that sabots are easier or that you should start out with sabots. That's like saying you should start out with three finger leather tabs because it is easier. I tried sabotless a couple of years ago but for me the ease of sabots and bullets available far outweighed re-sizing bullets and trying to squeeze every last fps out of a gun that I could get. A moderate load with a har, smooth blue and a 195 grain barnes is about as care free and easy to use as you can get in a .45 cal ML. Kills deer just as well and at hunting ranges and beyond for many, will shoot just as well also. Just because you do not need to be a custom gun maker or someone that can afford to pay one to use this combo does not make it any less of a good idea to use. |
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