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Post by jsthntn247 on Sept 9, 2014 15:50:28 GMT -5
Ok fellas, just pulled the trigger and ordered a barrel and misc stuff from Luke to build my first SMZ. Let me know what you think and if I left anything out. I am planning on cutting the barrel to 23" and installing a muscle brake. I have a few lb's of Hodgdon 4198. I plan on starting at 71gr and moving up in .5gr increments shooting over a chrony trying to end up somewhere around 2800fps with the 275 MH.
Savage Target Action large shank
Hs Precision stock
Brux barrel cut to 23" plus a muscle brake
Ken Ferral picatinny base
TPS steel rings
Weaver tactical 3-10x40 mil/mil scope
Lukes re-designed breech plug and tungsten bushing
Savage bolt head for 209 primers
Parker 275 MH's
Swinglock smooth sizing die
Veggie Wads
Spinjag loader
lyman alox bullet coating
Colapsable loading rod
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Post by linebaugh on Sept 9, 2014 16:01:31 GMT -5
That will be a dandy of a build.
Two things: you might consider the smooth/ff die combo. For a little extra you get much more flexibility.
Make sure that action is the large shank version.
Outside of that you have a wonderful shopping list and I'm certain you will be extremely happy.
Can't wait to see it. Have fun with it.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 9, 2014 16:02:26 GMT -5
You will have absolutely no issue with that build. For the deer in your area, I predict pain, much pain.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 9, 2014 16:03:46 GMT -5
Just hit me.
You going with the stock recoil lug? Not much extra to go aftermarket for the added peace of mind.
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Post by rambler on Sept 9, 2014 16:03:47 GMT -5
Ok fellas, just pulled the trigger and ordered a barrel and misc stuff from Luke to build my first SMZ. Let me know what you think and if I left anything out. I am planning on cutting the barrel to 23" and installing a muscle brake. I have a few lb's of Hodgdon 4198. I plan on starting at 71gr and moving up in .5gr increments shooting over a chrony trying to end up somewhere around 2800fps with the 275 MH. Savage Target Action large shank Hs Precision stock Brux barrel cut to 23" plus a muscle brake Ken Ferral picatinny base TPS steel rings Weaver tactical 3-10x40 mil/mil scope Lukes re-designed breech plug and tungsten bushing Savage bolt head for 209 primers Parker 275 MH's Swinglock smooth sizing die Veggie Wads Spinjag loader lyman alox bullet coating Colapsable loading rod Did Luke provide you with a barrel drop??
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Post by jsthntn247 on Sept 9, 2014 16:49:01 GMT -5
Rambler: what is a barrel drop?
rangeball: I have a northland shooter precision barrel nut and recoil lug
Fellas I have no idea whether or not to smooth form or full form. Not even real sure what the difference is. If I can get the accuracy I need from smooth forming, I would prefer that route. I had a big buck last year I watched for 2 days and could get no closer than 325 yards. I hunt allot of public land where I might only get one shot a year so I need to be able to make it count. I want something I can kill accurately out to 400 yards. I shoot monthly prone 600/1000 yard f/class matches with a 308 and have every die, scale, bullet, brass, and powder imaginable for a rifle but am completely dumb when it comes to smokeless muzzleloading. I just need a gun that is accurate and I'll be able to work a load up for it that will do the job, plus I dread the days of cleaning a muzzleloader for an hour after just a few shots.
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Post by rambler on Sept 9, 2014 17:12:58 GMT -5
Rambler: what is a barrel drop? rangeball: I have a northland shooter precision barrel nut and recoil lug Fellas I have no idea whether or not to smooth form or full form. Not even real sure what the difference is. If I can get the accuracy I need from smooth forming, I would prefer that route. I had a big buck last year I watched for 2 days and could get no closer than 325 yards. I hunt allot of public land where I might only get one shot a year so I need to be able to make it count. I want something I can kill accurately out to 400 yards. I shoot monthly prone 600/1000 yard f/class matches with a 308 and have every die, scale, bullet, brass, and powder imaginable for a rifle but am completely dumb when it comes to smokeless muzzleloading. I just need a gun that is accurate and I'll be able to work a load up for it that will do the job, plus I dread the days of cleaning a muzzleloader for an hour after just a few shots. Sorry, a barrel drop is a piece of barrel left over after is cut to a custom length. It is used to make the Full Form die.
If you're going to get a smooth form die, you might as well get the dual system that will size both smooth and full form using inserts.
Best of both worlds
I believe Luke has or will have those in stock. He posted a great tutorial in an earlier thread.
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 9, 2014 19:07:12 GMT -5
Drop will be include with the barrel. Although if he's going to cut it down to 23", he'll have part of the barrel available anyway for the drop. Also, he's getting the new Swing-Lock die, so if he so choses, he can have a FF insert made up at a later date.
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Post by jsthntn247 on Sept 23, 2014 10:15:53 GMT -5
Things are starting to come together. The action, scope, rings, and rail are setting in the safe. A package from Luke came in yesterday and the stock will be here today. I am starting to get as nervous as a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs about putting it all together and keeping my fingers when I pull the trigger on this thing!! I'm going too need yall's help on getting it set up and would appreciate if you would answer a few questions I have. 1. My main concern is the breach plug. I am assuming I drop the bushing in from the backside of the plug and tighten the lock ring as tight as it will go? Will I have to drill out the breech plug face to headspace it to the bolt face? A simple diagram or video showing the assembly would be a very large help. 2. When shooting the gun for the first few shots do yall normall remove the plug and clean the barrel in between shots like you would a center fire to break in the barrel until the copper fouling stops? How often do you take the breech plug and bushing apart to clean? 3. What is the best tool for dis assembling the breach plug for cleaning? 4. How do yall measure barrel length (front of lug?) and what do you consider the best ballance between barrel length and usability? I want to go as short as possible to save weight but not kill myself on incomplete powder burn or low velocities. This barrel is a chunk, but I understand why. The gun will mostly be used from a climbing tree stand in the woods or a small light weight tripod stand (public land). Also some prone shooting off bipod on field edges. It will not be used in mainly open terrain or from a box stand. When I showed the gunsmith (who is putting on the muzzle brake) the parts yesterday he looked as if he had seen and alien. His main concerns were about putting the breach plug together and headspacing the barrel. I hate to ask so many questions guys, but I don't have any experience with one of these, but I'm sure looking forward to it!!  |
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 23, 2014 10:23:04 GMT -5
I'll give you a call tonight. Look through the paperwork. There should be information on the breech plug assembly, if not, I'll e-mail it to you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 10:32:14 GMT -5
I'll give you a call tonight. Look through the paperwork. There should be information on the breech plug assembly, if not, I'll e-mail it to you. Luke the breech plug you sent me fit perfect and works great. We opened the flame channel and it shoots great. We didn't have to head space with new plug for my McRem. Are these new plugs designed different for the Remington's? |
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Post by 03mossy on Sept 23, 2014 11:24:34 GMT -5
Since you mentioned Northland are you familiar with setting headspace on a Savage with a centerfire barrel with go and no go gauges?
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Post by jsthntn247 on Sept 23, 2014 12:00:38 GMT -5
Since you mentioned Northland are you familiar with setting headspace on a Savage with a centerfire barrel with go and no go gauges? Yes |
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Post by 03mossy on Sept 23, 2014 13:21:56 GMT -5
Since you mentioned Northland are you familiar with setting headspace on a Savage with a centerfire barrel with go and no go gauges? Yes If you can handle that you will have no problem putting this thing together! Just take your time and follow the instructions to a tee. I'm sure after you talk to Luke tonight you will be good to go. |
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Post by jsthntn247 on Sept 28, 2014 18:08:44 GMT -5
Well, my smith and I tried for 2 hours today to get the barrel headspace correctly. I was advised by a member to put the bolt in the action and screw the barrel in until the bolt face contacted the breech plug, then put a primer in the bolt and unscrew the barrel in small increments until the bolt would close. We could never get the bolt face to touch the breech plug before the barrel tennon bottomed out in the action. I know we are close because shot a primer and it was bulged and had sut on it then screwed the barrel further in and shot another primer that was clean with no sut and primer barely bulged. However both primers were stuck and took pliers to get out of the bol and the barrel is bottomed out. Could anyone advise on what to try next.
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Post by jims on Sept 28, 2014 19:22:44 GMT -5
I think sw in one of the build sections has a tutorial on how to headspace. I just looked, it is in Build your Rifle, the third topic down the list I believe.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 19:38:29 GMT -5
Using the Savage plug modified by Slufoot with a primer seat I screwed the barrel in until it touched the face of the 209 bolt head. I then installed a Win 209 into the bolt head and ran the bolt forward adjusting the barrel until the bolt closed. It took more time to clean up the barrel threads so it would screw into the action then it took to headspace my barrel. Fired primers come out as clean as they went in with absolutely no sticking. Maybe your barrel is a shade long and needs a few thousandths trimmed off but I would double check everything before goin that route. If you have the action and barrel clean the barrel threads and oil then piece it together by hand without locking the barrel nut down and see if you can make it work. With the primers bulging they are definitely not sitting on the installed primer seat of the plug if you have the new Slufoot plug. Fired Win 209 from mine. Fed 209A comes out just as clean.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 20:36:25 GMT -5
What thickness lug are you using....isn't the .186"lug what aftermarket ml barrels are set for ...?Or is that only apply on Remington 700ml action..?...that could be the issue......
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 28, 2014 22:15:20 GMT -5
0.187 is the thickness for the Rem conversions. I know the Savages will work up to at least 0.240". Thicker than that, I do not know.
There should be no issue screwing the barrel in far enough to where the plug hits the bolt head? Can you deduce what is stopping it? Make sure your action threads are clean. I know of one person that had their barrel bottoming out on crud leftover from previous barrel.
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Post by jsthntn247 on Sept 29, 2014 1:04:15 GMT -5
The threads on the barrel are bottoming out in the action. We put a borescope in there and verified. With the plug screwed in the barrel, the plug is setting .055 deeper than the end of the threads. Recoil lug is .240.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 9:16:35 GMT -5
I just read your origional post and saw your using a Brux. My barrel is a McGowen. I am using the supplied recoil lug that is supplied with the Savage Target Action but I believe it's the same thickness as your aftermarket. If I had my barrel I would check to see how deep my plug sits in the barrel but it's on it's way back to McGowen to get some crown work. Once installed I do know the plug does not sit flush with the end of the barrel. Is the 209 bolt head on correct? I know there is little to mess up putting that on though.
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Post by 03mossy on Sept 29, 2014 9:21:18 GMT -5
I could see this happening. When I screwed my barrel on my action its very close to bottoming out. I think it was like another half turn and it bottomed out. I was starting to get worried as I screwed it on.
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Post by super7 on Sept 29, 2014 11:16:34 GMT -5
I think the easiest fix to your problem would be to precision grind your recoil lug. That is if you know someone that has the proper grinder for doing such work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 11:41:02 GMT -5
or get your smith to turn a few thou off the barrel, should fix things up..
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Post by rossman40 on Sept 30, 2014 9:08:29 GMT -5
I agree with Hillbill, taking 0.050 off the breech end of the barrel would give you one more turn and would be the easiest route. Grinding the recoil lug on a Savage doesn't do anything but how far the barrel nut goes out. You said the barrel was bottoming out in the action. With the barrel bottomed out in the action how much can you screw the barrel nut out?
I know when we were doing the prototyping for the conversion bolt head I installed one on my 112 and I only had a little more then one turn left on a factory 10ML-II barrel.
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Post by jsthntn247 on Oct 1, 2014 9:31:46 GMT -5
Yes, I am having the smith take a turn or two off the barrel so it will headspace properly. Not a big deal, just added expense and delay time on getting it up and running. He's got several builds pending and can't get to it for several weeks. Nothing ever seems to work out on the first go around for me.
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Post by rambler on Oct 1, 2014 9:35:09 GMT -5
Yes, I am having the smith take a turn or two off the barrel so it will headspace properly. Not a big deal, just added expense and delay time on getting it up and running. He's got several builds pending and can't get to it for several weeks. Nothing ever seems to work out on the first go around for me. Welcome to my world  |
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Post by jsthntn247 on Oct 19, 2014 21:15:30 GMT -5
Here it is. Ready to size some bullets and see what it's made of.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 21:21:22 GMT -5
Nice... looks really good
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Post by jsthntn247 on Nov 2, 2014 20:21:48 GMT -5
Took one shot to get on paper at 50 yards. Went back to 150 and fired a 3 round group with 70gr of 4198. Not bad for rounds 2-4 out of the gun.  After that I tried 3 shots with 10/60 4759/4198. Didn't even walk down to the target because they were all touching. Will try the same 2 loads with the 300 Be's tomorrow and shoot over a chrony and see what happens. |
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