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Post by Buckrub on Jun 2, 2009 16:04:02 GMT -5
Words mean something. Clearly God thinks we can figure out the Bible. Study will determine what the word means. The fact that the meaning changed down the line is immaterial. The fact that some words mean different things at different times is immaterial. The Word meant what it meant when written. "If you love Me, you will keep my commandments". How? If you can't agree on what they mean, or if they mean different things to different folks, how can we keep them? Jesus used Scripture to thwart Satan, and I do too.
Biblical "Hope" means "Desire Plus Expectation". I don't hope for a million dollars. Neither do I hope for a tetanus shot after stepping on a nail. I desire one, I expect the other, but in both cases, I don't do both, so no "hope".
"Born of the water" is definitely NOT our original birth from the womb. I know most would like that, cause it obviates their need to do it now. Nicodemus asked this very question, and he, a grown man, was told to be baptized of the water and the spirit. Water is water. Doesn't seem too hard. Yet 99% of Earth fights that one commandment as if it were a commandment to set your hair on fire. Never have gotten that.
I keep thinking I'll stop posting to this, cause no one believes me, they just post stuff that tells me why they think what they do.........
I wonder.....do y'all think Catholics are saved? They are a structured lot. Not a lot of 'let Jesus into your heart' although I guess they do believe, of course. I know y'all believe that anyone who 'accepts Jesus' (never did know what that meant, persactly) is saved. But they don't cotton much to any other faith, regardless of what they say. So..........are they saved?
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Post by ozark on Jun 2, 2009 20:36:22 GMT -5
Buckrub I have developed what I think is a better insight from reading your replies. I do think you are above the average in intelligence and that you assume others can read and understand what they read as you can. Many students are graduating from High School now who are unable to read at a third grade level. There are countless people who gets nothing from the Bible except gibberish (is that a word?" You are wrong when you say no one believes you. How many are influenced by your posts is an unknown. I have met many Catholics who were dedicated and sincere about their faith. I think being critical of a particular faith is a fault of yours if I read that meaning info your remark on Catholics. I am not of any demonination and it is my belief that God is wise enough to know the hearts of individuals regardless of how they were brought up to become members of a particular demonination. Don't quit because everyone doesn't agree with you. Ozark
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Post by dougedwards on Jun 3, 2009 8:11:34 GMT -5
Biblical "Hope" means "Desire Plus Expectation". " I I wonder.....do y'all think Catholics are saved? They are a structured lot. Not a lot of 'let Jesus into your heart' although I guess they do believe, of course. I know y'all believe that anyone who 'accepts Jesus' (never did know what that meant, persactly) is saved. But they don't cotton much to any other faith, regardless of what they say. So..........are they saved? <snip> I surely doubt that when we all get to the seat of judgement that God will ask us for our denomination card. Maybe Catholics are wrong in their doctrine. But you could say that about any denomination whether Protestant or not. I don't believe that we get into paradise to live with the Holiness of Almighty God for all eternity as a block but purely as an individual. IMO Doug
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Post by Buckrub on Jun 3, 2009 9:23:03 GMT -5
I don't belong to any "denomination" (Which word means a part, or section, or offshoot, of something bigger)......so I hope He doesn't ask.
I did not imply a thing about Catholics nor did I state my belief about them whatsoever. I apologize for being misunderstood. I asked a question of YOU POSTERS........what I was doing was assessing my perception of the sum of what all of you guys had said for 3 pages of posts, and thinking about it. I realize, I honestly believe, what it is that you guys believe is the truth. I then thought about Catholics (I could have thought of others), and wondered if YOU GUYS thought that they were saved? It was a sincere question.
They do NOT believe that you are going to be saved, by the way. Does that influence your thoughts of them?
I apologize to all of you, and to Catholics everywhere, if anyone thought I made any implications whatsoever. I was asking a question of what you guys thought, nothing more. I can pretty well surmise that none of the posters who have answered my posts are Catholic.
Doug, you are RIGHT ON about the individual. I am being misunderstood if I am perceived to be stating that any one group is right and others are wrong. What I'm trying to say, is that the BIBLE is right, and if you don't follow it and follow ALL of it, YOU are the one that's wrong.
I'm stating that INDIVIDUALS have commandments to follow and they better follow them. "I can't figure out the Bible" has historically, in my experience, meant "I don't want to bother reading that book, it's hard". That is gonna get you way more than a stern look on Judgment Day. Besides, how can you say you Love him and don't do what he says?
So many folks talk incessantly (and rightfully so) about how God loves US. But so few, almost none to be honest, talk about how we need to love God. John 15:14 and John 14:15 tell us how to do that. Now I am convinced that the Lord and Savior wouldn't tell me to do something that I can't do, then require me to be accountable for doing it.
"We all understand the Bible differently" may be true, but there is no reason for it. The Bible isn't the one changing. Study will reveal what you need to know. Failure to understand all of it is not sufficient reason to understand none of it, nor to try. It's you judgment that's based on it.
We should all "Be ready to give a reason for the hope that is in us"......and that reason better be based on more than just "I sorta feel like this or that".......
That's my opinion. I will be judged on whether I 'spread the Gospel' my ownself. That's all I'm trying to do, pursuade folks to go read for themselves, to believe, and to obey.
My apologies for getting here 'hit and miss' and probably being in a hurry about serious subjects and not doing them justice and being misunderstood. Told y'all a long time ago I'd end up making some folks upset. That's just me.
But I R Just a' tryin'.........trust me.
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Post by dougedwards on Jun 3, 2009 10:27:15 GMT -5
Buckrub.......I don't believe that I have misunderstood your intentions. It didn't seem to me that you were only pointing out Catholics but that you had a larger point in mind to express.
The Holy Bible in it's totality is a very difficult writing to completely understand. However I do agree that it is the bread of life for us who believe. Perhaps God wants us to dig and study for the truth as it applies to our lives with HIM.
Doug
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Post by Buckrub on Jun 3, 2009 11:43:32 GMT -5
Yep. But it ain't 'perhaps'. It's real. II Tim 2:15 is a commandment. And it clearly says that the Word can be rightly and wrongly divided or parsed. I didn't say that, God did. I showed where God demands us to show our love to Him by obeying his commandments. The verse in Timothy shows we can understand his commandments by studying. I believe that's a requirement, that sincere effort. If I do that and fail, I sure pray for Grace. My larger point is a question or two. "Is all that's required to be saved (born again) a sincere belief in whatever it is that you happen to believe? Is it good enough to stay with what religion you were raised in? Are all religions and belief systems just as good as another, so long as you think it fits you? What if the belief system that fits YOU is pretty inconsistent with the Bible teachings? Who is right? How important is tradition in determining truth?"......... Or is it important what you believe? Is it also important what you practice? What you do? Just food for thought, I don't have all the answers. Man, this is getting to be a long post!!!
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Post by ozark on Jun 3, 2009 13:59:12 GMT -5
I would like your take on the first few verses of St. John with respect to the Word. Was it Christ who later said My Father and I are One. Was it the Word (whatever that meaning) that made all things and that had life and was the light of the world? Again here we get into the meaning of words. Many call the word the bible but perhaps there are two meanings. Yes, Buckrub this is getting to be a long post but it is a long ways from the cradle to the grave for some of us. Ozark
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Post by Buckrub on Jun 3, 2009 14:14:40 GMT -5
Pretty clear to me. The "Word" was with God and was God. That makes the "Word" to be Jesus Christ. He was with God from the beginning of the world. Not sure why you ask that, related to this stuff, but that's what I think it means.
As for the meaning of "Word", there are indeed lots of meanings. That's one of the drawbacks of English, but the Bible wasn't written in English. I suspect (it's not any proof, but it is a hint) that Capital W Word....is not same as word.......in many texts.
Phillipians 2:16 says that Paul held forth the word of life (the Bible I think, or the inspired word before the Bible was actually completed) so that he could rejoice in the Day of Christ (the judgment I think), so that he didn't do all this work in vain (and be lost after he believed).....in other words, Paul says that he worked hard to keep the commandments of the Bible so that he could have a good Judgment Day, and not be lost after working so hard at it after he believed.
Maybe I misunderstand your question....not sure.
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Post by ozark on Jun 3, 2009 14:31:40 GMT -5
I ask because it appear to me that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one. Just as I am one but also a father, grandfather, husband and other things. I agree with your answer Buckrub and you understood my question. I am impressed that you have noted a distinction between a captolized Word and the ordinary word. As for this post becoming long..... To me it is a discussion of beliefs, the Bible and different understandings. From it I may discover only one little gem among the rough in which they sometimes exist. Thanks to all who contribute to this topic. It is either a lot of bull or the most important subject in life. Ozark.
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Post by Buckrub on Jun 3, 2009 14:41:10 GMT -5
My distinction is not that it's Capitalized, per se. My distinction is that I believe that's a hint that the original language was different for the two words. Most languages do not have homonyms like English does. I agree with your last post. I was trying to be kind to others who read it and offer to stop and/or start over on another one......we're doing what good conversations always do! We grasshopper from one subject to another. That's great, that's how my pea brain works best. I channel surf through life!!!
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