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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 21:50:01 GMT -5
I've noticed quite a bit of smokeless builds on here. I just can not understand why one would spend such money on having a custom rifle built when factory guns can shoot just as good, if not BETTER than these high priced smokeless powder shooting rigs. One of my members posted his CVA Accura MR at 365 yards with 2 different bullets. 2 low shots = Hornady 250 Monoflex 2 TOP HIGH shots = Barnes 250 TE-Z's before scope adjustment. Next 2 are in the bulls eye area. All of that done with a typical load of 110 "Volume" grains Blackhorn209. Certainly other factory rifles can do the same thing as the Accura MR above without having to swap out stocks/barrels.
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Post by 03mossy on Sept 1, 2014 22:04:31 GMT -5
For me factory off the shelf rifles are boring. I like my stuff to be unique and my own. Looking forward to the rest of the replys!
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Post by bestill on Sept 1, 2014 22:16:37 GMT -5
You ask a valid guestion but only manufacture i know that actually guarantees accuracy is knight mountaineer which they guarantee a 4" group at 200 yds which is 2 moa
Your posted load will shoot at appx 2000 fps and drop like 18" at 200 yds witheffective kill range of 250yds would drop appx51" at 325 yds. Smokeless custom more like 2800fps plus and drop3" at 200yds and kill range 650 yds would drop appx10" at 325 yds. These customs will shoot sub .250 moa .
That a quick answer many other reasons maybe another member will better explain but run ballistic chart for your cva compared to custom sml you will be shocked. Id love to see a cva accura mr shoot like that at 300 plus yds and shake the trigger mans hand cause thats shooting well.
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Post by bestill on Sept 1, 2014 22:25:57 GMT -5
Sample100 yd 3 shot group custom build under .375 center to center. And many will do better Ive never seen a sabot50 cal ml shoot 3 shoot group comparable.
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Post by bestill on Sept 1, 2014 22:26:24 GMT -5
Sample100 yd 3 shot group custom build under .375 center to center. And many will do better Ive never seen a sabot50 cal ml shoot 3 shoot group comparable.
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Post by bestill on Sept 1, 2014 22:26:49 GMT -5
Sample100 yd 3 shot group custom build under .375 center to center. And many will do better Ive never seen a sabot50 cal ml shoot 3 shoot group comparable.
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Post by bestill on Sept 1, 2014 22:30:29 GMT -5
Sorry photo bucket went wild or my phone.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Sept 1, 2014 22:39:03 GMT -5
If they shoot just as good or better as you claim, Dikar should get a shooting team together for the NMLRA national competition and have at it with a bone stock Dikar rifle. Some how i doubt they will ever do it with a ML.
My reason is simple, i clean my SMLs when i feel like it and 2400fps is a piece of cake even in my 50cal. Let me know when Dikar offers a factory non smoker Accura MR 45cal. I will be glad to check it out.
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Post by bestill on Sept 1, 2014 22:50:05 GMT -5
There will be several cva and other sabot guns in the nmlra inline aggregate match and in past matches they have not performed.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Sept 1, 2014 22:54:05 GMT -5
Kinda strange isnt it considering Dikar sells some highend CFs that cost more than my NULA and SavPac combined. Their heavy tactical is listed at $4500 MSRP.
You would imagine they would have an interest in a quality ML shooting team.
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Post by Alabama on Sept 1, 2014 23:59:21 GMT -5
There is absolutely no comparison between a custom SML and any CVA stock rifle. I have both. The CVA will stay in the case
Isn't the CVA MR the 20" barrel? 365 yds seems like a stretch. Would have to see it to believe it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 0:15:13 GMT -5
CVA Wolf, 100gr BH209, 250gr Powerbelt Aerolite - 3 Shots @100. Traditions LDR - 3 shots @ 100 - Traditions branded FPB conicals ( 100% hornady FPB ) 100gr BH209. This was the only rifle i've owned that shot them so greatly. CVA Optima - 100 yards - 100gr BH209 - 250gr Powerbelt Aerolite. It just seems funny to me going through all that work and such. I see guys out at the NRA Whittington Center with these decked out .22cal rifles and shooting 3" groups at 50 yards. You just have to laugh at that because your every day Marlin can do better. I see records with custom made guns lately, not bone stock factory guns, so its kinda like hot rodding a corvette and bragging how you beat a factory corvette. Then again I honestly could care less about records, its all about whats done in the field IMO. Shooting targets is fun to learn your equipment and all, but a hell of a lot more enjoyable putting it to use in the field. Personally, I've been enjoying my .58cal Hawken a lot more lately than centerfire or inline muzzys. It seems up with them and will give them a hard time even with open sights.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 0:18:52 GMT -5
There is absolutely no comparison between a custom SML and any CVA stock rifle. I have both. The CVA will stay in the case Isn't the CVA MR the 20" barrel? 365 yds seems like a stretch. Would have to see it to believe it. 25" barrel.
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Post by bestill on Sept 2, 2014 1:43:25 GMT -5
I've noticed quite a bit of smokeless builds on here. I just can not understand why one would spend such money on having a custom rifle built when factory guns can shoot just as good, if not BETTER than these high priced smokeless powder shooting rigs. One of my members posted his CVA Accura MR at 365 yards with 2 different bullets. 2 low shots = Hornady 250 Monoflex 2 TOP HIGH shots = Barnes 250 TE-Z's before scope adjustment. Next 2 are in the bulls eye area. All of that done with a typical load of 110 "Volume" grains Blackhorn209. Certainly other factory rifles can do the same thing as the Accura MR above without having to swap out stocks/barrels. I see a 8" target that holes all over it at 365 yds even thats impressive from cva accura mr great shooting. But id be cautious cruising dougs board you may end up building a custom sml . Kinda like moped i had when14 it got me to town but 67 big block mustang got to town also but alittle more exciting. I will shoot my custom and you shoot your hawken and we will both probably be eating venison your rite.
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Post by hunter on Sept 2, 2014 7:13:57 GMT -5
gander, If you take into account all the rusted up black powder guns out there, you will probably find thousands of answers to your question.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 11:04:49 GMT -5
I have zero interest in building a smokeless muzzy, especially since in colorado we are limited to open sights and black powder - sub only. One bear under her belt already!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 11:11:23 GMT -5
Your results are very conflicting to any that I have ever had or witnessed. Congrats on some great shooting factory rifles. The power belt groups look nothing like anything I have ever received from sending hundred of them down range.
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Post by 10ga on Sept 2, 2014 11:12:56 GMT -5
Lets see why? blackhorn at $35 for 10 oz. that is about $.70 for just powder ($32 lb. for 4759 that's $.20 a shot), then recoil to even get to 2K velocity, then ya gotta clean or say goodbye to that barrel, and with lower velocity your bullet goes sub-sonic sooner and that is the end of accuracy, and as for cost, judicious searching can yield a SML at a rather low cost dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/15662/most-inexpensive-sml-deer-whomper . Personally I shot holy black and subs for 45 years but with the 1st Savage MLII that I got no smokers for hunting for me. I now have 6 SML rifles and the most expensive one was the off the rack Savage that I got 1st. sure smokers can shoot long range, but they are shooting 450+ gr bullets on top of 120 gr of real black powder out of 15 lb. rifles and the trajectory is like a rainbow Yes, I have a White Bison rifle and it is accurate and a great shooter. But I don't use it to hunt any more, just for teaching and instruction. To each his own. these are my reasons for going SML, superior performance, lower in season maintenance, lower per shot cost, lower recoil at hunting style and ranges I shoot, using a gun "I built" to my own needs. Your results may be different. Good hunting and in the words of William Wallace "Freedom!" 10 ga PS. I love my smokers, particularly my .58 PRB gun, and shoot them every once in a while but with old eyes I can't even see peeps worth hunting any more, Wish it weren't so but that is how life goes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 11:29:20 GMT -5
people still shoot those salvages?
Exactly, I love that 58cal, best yet is a 1 3/4" group at 150 yards with it. Taking it on a CO doe hunt in under 2 weeks.
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Post by encore50a on Sept 2, 2014 11:50:09 GMT -5
I ain't put'n my dog in this fight......
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Sept 2, 2014 16:29:22 GMT -5
He is just stirring the pot as always. Just ignore him and he will go away.
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Post by rambler on Sept 2, 2014 16:53:14 GMT -5
Chiggers....the more you scratch...the more they itch
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 17:54:09 GMT -5
what, no one is up for a half way decent honest conversation these days?
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Post by 10ga on Sept 2, 2014 18:32:37 GMT -5
what, no one is up for a half way decent honest conversation these days? \ What about making an appearance at the "Challenge" next year and defend your postings. If as you say all will see and know the truth. 200 yds really aint much. My old White Bison will shoot real good at that range but 350+ is the challenge. admittedly I have never shot a deer that far, 270 yd is my historic max., but hey, were just punchin paper. besides I know a lot of guys that can't really shoot that good but they are VERY good hunters and range is really not the issue. see my previous post for more info. LOL, such fun and each to his own. Warm winters and cool summers to all! 10 ga
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a1smokepole
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Being Safe Adds More Fun When Shooting
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Post by a1smokepole on Sept 2, 2014 20:01:43 GMT -5
You just can't compare the two. so FG come to the dark side you will see and you can say you own one. and you can take pic of it. lol
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 20:10:50 GMT -5
As of now there are NO smokeless ml's in production ...custom guns are NOW the only way to go SMOKELESS....99.5% of the members here came here to learn smling and get away from smoking and all the dirtiness and PITA constant maintenance that MUST be done or you get a rusted up barrel and is now only good for tomato staking.....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 20:15:59 GMT -5
I've read of a knight burning up a vent liner in 45 shots with BH209, i can only imagine the added cost of having to replace them so often in a smokeless ml?
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Post by bestill on Sept 2, 2014 20:43:26 GMT -5
No you put a bushing vent in it and shot thousands of shots .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 20:49:41 GMT -5
No you put a bushing vent in it and shot thousands of shots . Right..what planet has FG been on...?
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Post by Alabama on Sept 3, 2014 0:10:06 GMT -5
FG, you should build you a smokeless. With your abilities it should not be much of a problem and you won't have much money in it. Not much more than the MR. (Never mind that, I understand CVA sends you free stuff for you to promote. Was this thread a promotion for CVA? ) I'm sure you would enjoy it. All the same process, just no SMOKE and no swabbing between shots and no real cleaning after shooting and if you want 3000 fps + with a 300 gr bullet. AND it will still shoot BH209.
But I'm afraid some of the guys on your board would not be happy. .
One thing that bothers me about this thread. You have your own board. Frontier muzzleloading. You even have a smokeless section. Why not ask the question to Carlos? Why come here and basically call all the SML guys fools. Have not wrapped my head around that yet.
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