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Post by Alabama on Aug 21, 2014 8:39:38 GMT -5
What difficulties would I face? If I bought say a 30" Kreiger barrel for my Rem ml which is fitted with a 24" pac-nor. I would use the pac for hunting and the kreiger for targets. How difficult is it to swap barrels? I'm sure there would be a bedding issue. That just crossed my mind. So, in my mind right now, probably just as well to make another build. Trying to save a $ or 2.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 12:41:10 GMT -5
These guns are like M&Ms you just cant get by with one,lol.....
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Post by Richard on Aug 21, 2014 12:55:52 GMT -5
If you don't bed forward of the recoil lug, there is no problem? Richard
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Post by jims on Aug 21, 2014 13:52:21 GMT -5
Barrels can be changed on the RemML platform, IMO it just is "easier" with the barrel nut with the SavML platform but that is not what you are shooting. You will like the Krieger I believe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 16:41:53 GMT -5
IMO the biggest problem will be that usually switch barrels are barely more than hand tight. That is what makes them easy to change. With a breech plug if you torque her down good then you will spin the barrel off when you aren't expecting it. Could probably devise a setscrew to hold it from turning when you don't want it to. I would want a pinned recoil lug also before the bedding goes in.
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Post by dannoboone on Aug 21, 2014 18:33:36 GMT -5
Some of the guys over at savageshooters.com are making what they call "Remages", which incorporates a Savage-type barrel nut on a Remington.
Of course, that would take additional machining of your existing barrel as well as the Kreiger barrel, a barrel nut, a pinned recoil lug and some work for the pin on your receiver.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Aug 21, 2014 18:46:21 GMT -5
Alabama.. If you want to build a switch barrel gun then bed the target barrel 4 to 5 inches in front of the lug and let the hunting barrel float. Make sure the target barrel is slightly bigger than your hunting barrel. Also make sure you do a little more than HAND TIGHT as a 6br will rattle that loos in just a few shots. Get an action wrench and a fitted block(s) of wood like I had at the shoot and use these tools to remove and install the barrels. You do not need or want a set screw to bugger your barrel threads or then you will be really screwed.
I have built quite a few switch barrel guns and never heard of them being shot with only hand tightening them...
If you build a 30 incher and don't bed it I can promise you it won't shoot...
Then you have a hunting stock and a not so target quality scope,, so if you have to swap that out every time you won't be saving much money...
The best thing to do is...IMO is... if you want a target rifle, design it exactly like you want it and built it that way.. This way when its done you will have it exactly like you want.. Grab it when you're target shooting or hunting the bean fields... Grab that other light weight woods gun for when you will be packing it and shots expected will be fairly close.. Also build your target rifle on a Remington 700 short action center fire,, LRMP system....Jeff.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Aug 21, 2014 19:11:14 GMT -5
If you build a 30 incher and don't bed it I can promise you it won't shoot... Is this a big bore SML specific issue due to barrel length vice wall thickness? And are we talking about bedding the barrel when we say "and don't bed it"?
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Post by hankinsrfls on Aug 21, 2014 19:19:19 GMT -5
7mm...
Yes,, IMO and in my experience.. If you build a heavy long barrel rifle (caliber does not matter) and you do not bed it,, then that rifle will not shoot to its potential.
You have the option to do a barrel sleeve where you clamp the barrel in a long block usually about 8 inches and the block is bedded into the stock and the entire action is floating. No action screws at all. "Picture a rail gun with a stock". Jeff.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 19:21:50 GMT -5
Jeff I know you are unfamiliar with the 700ml but the barrel threads are unnecessarily long some could be skimmed off and a detent set screw could be used. I'm an incomplete idiot not full Nelson. By barely more than hand tight I mean installed with a strap wrench so easily removed. Someone with sausage fingers could wrangle it off.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 19:22:53 GMT -5
7mm... Yes,, IMO and in my experience.. If you build a heavy long barrel rifle (caliber does not matter) and you do not bed it,, then that rifle will not shoot to its potential. You have the option to do a barrel sleeve where you clamp the barrel in a long block usually about 8 inches and the block is bedded into the stock and the entire action is floating. No action screws at all. "Picture a rail gun with a stock". Jeff. Dang, Barrett has no clue what they are doing.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Aug 21, 2014 19:44:17 GMT -5
Jeff I know you are unfamiliar with the 700ml but the barrel threads are unnecessarily long some could be skimmed off and a detent set screw could be used. I'm an incomplete idiot not full Nelson. By barely more than hand tight I mean installed with a strap wrench so easily removed. Someone with sausage fingers could wrangle it off. That's the biggest problem with all this miss information on the board... People say one thing but mean another... I see it everyday... Its a wonder some newbie hasn't blown himself up yet dumping to much shotgun powder down his barrel..... Come on guys..........Read and re-read your post. Make sure you got it correct before hitting the post button. And a detent set screw would be completely unnecessary and a waist of time.. I never said I was unfamiliar with the 700ML. I have one of my own I bought years ago..... I just prefer to start my builds with an action with locking lugs. Strap wrenches were made for AR's,,,, not bolt actions... LOL... I'm not trying to make you mad but if you post information. make sure it is correct and that people reading it will be able to understand what you are telling them. Jeff.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Aug 21, 2014 19:46:44 GMT -5
7mm... Yes,, IMO and in my experience.. If you build a heavy long barrel rifle (caliber does not matter) and you do not bed it,, then that rifle will not shoot to its potential. You have the option to do a barrel sleeve where you clamp the barrel in a long block usually about 8 inches and the block is bedded into the stock and the entire action is floating. No action screws at all. "Picture a rail gun with a stock". Jeff. Dang, Barrett has no clue what they are doing. Put my rifles on the bench next to Barrett's rifles and the results will be the same as last weekend.......... God I love this board... I got to stop and go build some rifles... Jeff..
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Post by 7mmfreak on Aug 21, 2014 19:48:52 GMT -5
7mm... Yes,, IMO and in my experience.. If you build a heavy long barrel rifle (caliber does not matter) and you do not bed it,, then that rifle will not shoot to its potential. You have the option to do a barrel sleeve where you clamp the barrel in a long block usually about 8 inches and the block is bedded into the stock and the entire action is floating. No action screws at all. "Picture a rail gun with a stock". Jeff. I was just curious as I shoot and know a lot of guys who shoot Palma guns with no bedding forward of the action face/lug and those barrels are 28-32" on average. I figured it had to be supposing a relatively thin barrel wall. I'm also familiar with barrel blocks but have never built anything that would require one; that may change next year however as I may have need of a niche gun.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Aug 21, 2014 22:00:23 GMT -5
Talk one of those guys into bedding the first 2-4 inches of their barrel and shoot it of awhile. Ask them if their group average got better? Or some one can do a test to see. Shoot ten groups with a gun with a 30 inch barrel completely floating in the stock, then bed the action, pillars and 4 inches of the barrel all at one time. Shoot ten groups and figure your averages. Come to your own conclusion. Jeff.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 22:47:54 GMT -5
That's good stuff right there....
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Post by 7mmfreak on Aug 22, 2014 7:39:11 GMT -5
I think in order to conduct your test you would have to manufacture a new forearm for a tube-gun so that the breech was sleeved; or you would need to manufacture a system sort of like JP's Thermal Dissipators but in a way where it was a zero-fit to barrel and forearm. My buddies don't believe in tube-guns because they grew up on M-14s. I have spent enough time with the AR platform I like the tube-gun. The guys shooting conventional stocks could try it if they wanted but these guys have been shooting on the US team on and off since the 70's so I doubt I'm going to talk them into that. All these guns are either pill/glass bedded or glued-in. I just know you don't see a lot of bedded or blocked (none blocked that I have seen) barrels in Palma or F-T/R and there are quite a lot of matches in NC for these disciplines. I don't know that I have ever seen a 30" barrel on a rifle at one of the PRS matches but in general all of those guns are fully floated as well.
I'm sure there is merit to what you are proposing but I was more curious as to whether or not you supposed it was due to a large hole in the barrel of a given length vice a medium sized hole in same barrel since you said you promised it wouldn't shoot and my experience (albeit with not with the SML and the reason I asked the question) runs to the contrary.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Aug 22, 2014 9:26:25 GMT -5
I am speaking only for the bolt action rifles. I know absolutely nothing about tube guns or the m-14's I build only bolt action rifles, No shot gun work, no pistol work.. I will and have threaded several AR barrels for a brake/silencers but that's as far as I go on that kind of stuff...
My test is to be performed on a bolt action rifle. It won't matter if it is a wooden stock or a composite. Results you get from any other type rifle will just add to the confusion.. And we don't need any more of that... LOL.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Aug 22, 2014 11:50:49 GMT -5
The tube guns are chassis sytems using Rem 700 actions and I know one guy with a Barnard action in a chassis. The reference to the M-14 has to do with the fact that he prefers the McMillan Baker Special stock and does not like the feel of or the modularity of the tube-gun/chassis which has a very similar feel to the AR platform. The other two guys both shoot laminated stocks; one is Mastin stock from Mac Tilton and Blair Clowdis makes his own. So, no confusion.
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Post by hankinsrfls on Aug 22, 2014 13:40:38 GMT -5
Ok... I think you are getting off track here... You can not test a barreled action in a tube chassis for accuracy them bed it in a stock and test it for accuracy and compare the two and get a realistic result. The bedded stock will shoot better than the tube gun (in my experience)but you are still not comparing apples to apples.. You must start with a rifle, (completely floated barrel)test it for accuracy, several groups shot over a given period of time,,, Keep good records and get your average, Ammo must remain the same also. Then change nothing on the rifle, except completely re-bedding it with pillars and do 2-4 inches of the barrel, now do the same accuracy testing and get your average. I am willing to bet the average will be a smaller number. You can't test a gun in one stock (a tube system) then swap it over to a wooden stock and test it again. The balance of the rifle, the barrel harmonics, the felt recoil, everything is different... Change nothing except bedding.
As for the what you are calling a tube gun I do now know what you meant by it. I did one for a customer in Indianapolis last summer using an MDT TAC21 Chassis System. It was a 308 with a heavy varmint match grade barrel. After the customer got the rifle and shot it for a while he called me and said " Jeff, This gun don't shoot as good as the other 4 you built for me, I think it's the stock,,, Will you put a McMillan on it? I said "sure I will" after it was done a few months later he sent me an e-mail saying "It was now a one hole shooter. Thanks." So that is how I draw my conclusion to the "tube" chassis systems. By the way that chassis system is for sale if anyone wants it. I can give him your name and number. Jeff.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Aug 22, 2014 14:42:02 GMT -5
Jeff, you have mail.
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