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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 23:59:58 GMT -5
Seems like that's what is ruling the boards these days and I personally don't get it. I've been hanging around here for about 5 years and I've never seen or don't remember so much of the "My truck is better than your truck stuff". This is normally a place to share, ask questions, learn and shoot the bull, friendly. Not so much as of late. There are a ton of good members here and lots of visitors interested in possibly jumping into the SML world, that being said, not everyone has the same outlook, goals, wants, needs or budgets, etc... EX's: Not everyone is a paper puncher, not everyone wants a bolt gun, not everyone wants to shoot sabotless, or duplex, not everyone can afford what the next guy has, and not everyone is concerned with shooting sub MOA groups. ETC... That is all fine and great if you can or if thats what you want, but that doesn't mean for those who don't or can't, that they deserve a bashing, point being, no need in bashing anyone for what they want, need, have or how they do something. The main goal here is supposed to help each other meet their goals and expectations, no matter what they are. Will my mcrem or my upcoming savage build shoot good enough to win a match shoot or the next kentucky challenge? I doubt, but thats not what I'm after, I'm confident they will be MOA or sub MOA to 300 yards and they will kill a deer just as fast as any "match winning" gun. I shoot nothing but duplex loads at least to this point, because they are proven and they work. Does that mean it's the best? Maybe not, but it works and I have confidence in it. I'd guess that the vast majority of people who visit this site are hunters and not bench shooters and at the same time probably dont have the budget or actual need for a $3k-$4k muzzleloader and if they do, and that's what they want, then great and if that's not what they are after, then great. Either way, lets get back to "friendly fire". This sport/hobby has came a long ways because of a bunch of members here, and it continues to grow and get better because of them, lets not get hung up now. Some friendly competition and razzing is always good, but lately it's getting crazy.. Not pointing any fingers or laying any blame, just stating my personal opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 0:09:38 GMT -5
I've been trying to stay out of the latest comments on the board also. It's some what fun to read the razzing and it's great to see people getting together at a shoot and creating new friends. However I completely agree with you, it's starting to get old and it would be nice for everyone to understand not everyone can afford a high dollar sml what ever that price tag may be.
Lots of good info on this board and lots of people love to help. Hope it continues to be that way.
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Post by superkirby on Aug 21, 2014 1:07:47 GMT -5
I could be wrong but it seems like a lot of it has shifted from a unique group of people that worked together because they had to or they didn't have a good smokeless, to a couple manufacturers trying to sell something. And you can't get someone buy what your selling unless you convince them what they have isn't good enough. Unfortunately in doing so you're also going to step on toes.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Aug 21, 2014 4:14:07 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the arms race is inevitable in every shooting discipline I have been a part of. In competitive shotgun you will start with a an affordable autoloader and work your way up to a Perazzi if you have the means and run with guys who are keeping up with the Jones. I wouldn't exactly say there are many affordable starter guns anymore either. There is absolutely no reason why an accurate centerfire rifle can't be had on a trued Remington for around $2500 dollars but the trend these days is to charge upwards of $3000 for a Remington based gun. What's more is when you are done with it you have a used Remington so guys started making Rem clones and charging $4500 or more for them because they are custom. AR platforms are just as bad. You shoot a gun like a Stag 3G or a Barnes Precision for under $2000 and win but a Noveske or LaRue will cost a great deal more; the only place I believe there is a big difference in manufacturers and reliability is an AR-10 that you are taking to war since they do seem to vary widely in quality and reliability. So, I do not find it shocking that the SML suffers the same fate. They have received enough attention that people have smelled the blood in the water.
On the upside, it is like dudes who enjoy artificial shooting (Benchrest) and it will have an overall positive impact on the sport's technology. Guys like Luke have taken what guys before him coordinated with Pac-nor and McGowen and has made it easily available with has spawned greater interest and more participants. Guys like Josh are the Star Trek going boldy where nobody has gone before. Tom is like the NASA side as his stuff one step further than most can do; lots of guys have Cesna prop aircraft but I don't know many who own jets. There are others who are immeasurably talented and stay out of the lime light by choice. You always take the good with the bad so you have some pedants, charlatans, and every board has its internet trolls who thrive on conflict. All I can say about them is DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
In general I enjoy the board but was telling another board member a day or so ago that recently, and often now, I consider taking a vacation from the board.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 4:45:26 GMT -5
My 2 cents
I have been around here for a while now and while things get a little testy sometimes, (like now), cool heads will prevail in the end and things will settle down. Like anything else when you get the guys at the top of their game together in one spot things get a little out of hand at times and that is just human nature.
What comes of it? motivation.. that's one of the reasons so many advancements have been made here in recent years. I don't care who you are or how good you are one can come to this site and learn something, even the guy that's a newby can take an approach or have an idea that spawns someone else to take it to the next level. I will agree that bickering gets old quick so we need to tone it down some before it gets out of hand.
I think the neatest thing about this board is that there is something for everyone, factory Savage info,Remmy ML conversions, the H&Rs,Encore,Apex etc conversions on the lower end to the cool stuff on the other end of the spectrum. Lets keep things civil for everyone involved..........
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Aug 21, 2014 6:31:06 GMT -5
It seems like it changed back at the beginning of this year. I like the old days better pre 1/14. I was much friendlier back then with only an occasional ruffling of Richard's feathers.
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Post by jims on Aug 21, 2014 6:31:16 GMT -5
All well said.
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Post by ET on Aug 21, 2014 6:47:11 GMT -5
Ohioguy
You are not the only one that has seen changes occurring on this board. The demeanor now occurring is obvious and expanding. This does affect participation and the sense of wanting to belong. At one time the board was mainly the 50 and when you joined you were welcomed, encouraged and helped to get on track even by those already moving into the 45 & 40 Cal. I believed that fueled the Savage fever more and promoted camaraderie to a high level. With pioneering and new discoveries taking center stage it doesn’t promote harmony at times but that’s also part of the board’s maturing to the next level. There are also many good points others have mentioned especially with the learning phase that I enjoy following even if I don’t fit in anymore so to speak.
As for the option of acquiring what’s needed for muzzle loading at different levels that is up to the individual to decide what they believe is best for him/her. Of course you will hear others declare what is best from their view point that they may take a strong stance on it. But the option of choice is there.
The board over time has lost some of the quality IMO that I experienced when I first joined. Will it regain the desired qualities I once experienced? I guess that’s up to the members.
Ed
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Aug 21, 2014 7:38:28 GMT -5
I think I've only had cross words with one person here and he is seldom on the board now and I truly believe (now) that he just had one of those weird personalities that is hard to swallow.
The "this is better than that" stuff I just ignore for the most part. There are some great builders here, but only one will ever touch my builds and that's because he reached out to help me when I was new here and answered any stupid question I had. He wasn't in it to make money, he just wanted to help. I seriously think he may have lost money helping me out or at the best broke even.
I love it here, but the "salesman" stuff I just ignore. To be completely honest I enjoy carrying the Encore conversion I had done for my son more than about anything else. It's not custom, it's not pretty, it's not near as accurate as the ones that sit in the safe most of the time, but it's a joy to carry around and gets most jobs done with ease. Having said that I don't think I could ever get rid of the customs I had built.
I just don't sweat the small stuff anymore, just don't have the time or inclination to let it bother me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 9:21:35 GMT -5
Seems like that's what is ruling the boards these days and I personally don't get it. I've been hanging around here for about 5 years and I've never seen or don't remember so much of the "My truck is better than your truck stuff". This is normally a place to share, ask questions, learn and shoot the bull, friendly. Not so much as of late. There are a ton of good members here and lots of visitors interested in possibly jumping into the SML world, that being said, not everyone has the same outlook, goals, wants, needs or budgets, etc... EX's: Not everyone is a paper puncher, not everyone wants a bolt gun, not everyone wants to shoot sabotless, or duplex, not everyone can afford what the next guy has, and not everyone is concerned with shooting sub MOA groups. ETC... That is all fine and great if you can or if thats what you want, but that doesn't mean for those who don't or can't, that they deserve a bashing, point being, no need in bashing anyone for what they want, need, have or how they do something. The main goal here is supposed to help each other meet their goals and expectations, no matter what they are. Will my mcrem or my upcoming savage build shoot good enough to win a match shoot or the next kentucky challenge? I doubt, but thats not what I'm after, I'm confident they will be MOA or sub MOA to 300 yards and they will kill a deer just as fast as any "match winning" gun. I shoot nothing but duplex loads at least to this point, because they are proven and they work. Does that mean it's the best? Maybe not, but it works and I have confidence in it. I'd guess that the vast majority of people who visit this site are hunters and not bench shooters and at the same time probably dont have the budget or actual need for a $3k-$4k muzzleloader and if they do, and that's what they want, then great and if that's not what they are after, then great. Either way, lets get back to "friendly fire". This sport/hobby has came a long ways because of a bunch of members here, and it continues to grow and get better because of them, lets not get hung up now. Some friendly competition and razzing is always good, but lately it's getting crazy.. Not pointing any fingers or laying any blame, just stating my personal opinions. Jeff's shoot was a learning experience for everyone...Jeff included....As we all know this sport/hobby is always in the developmental stage ....Progress is good and a little competitveness spurns new ideas....Most high end builders that come here don't stay long but Jeff has ended up being an active member here and we ALL have learned a thing or twenty.....Everyone just keep in mind"Its ALL Good"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 10:00:48 GMT -5
Let me start by saying, I'm not the best at putting "speeches" together, so I apologize now if I come off wrong or step out of line, it's not my intention. So...----> Alot of good words have been spoken already, and I didn't start this thread to naysay or knock any individuals or their practices, it was intended to do just the exact opposite and hopefully promote getting back to business as usual and away from all the "hostility". There are some seriously intelligent and experienced folks among us, and most of them won't speak up, because that's just what they do, they pioneer, they design, they test and when they feel the time is right and or appropriate, they share, and I completely respect that and their modesty. EX's: Bill, Greg, Ken, Luke, Slufoot, etc. build some darn fine rifles and step up and offer all the information they have stored in their brains to everyone, but rarely, if ever do you see them give a negative comment or knock anyone for anything. If they don't agree, they politely voice their opinions and try their best to help whomever head in the right direction. I'm all for change where and when it's beneficiary (which is a constant) and I'm all for progression, no matter who is the brains behind it and even if I never use newer and better things that folks come up with, I will be appreciative and applaud them and I believe that has been a widespread practice here for most folks. Ed you are very correct, and I too love to see new members come aboard to this day. In fact, I still consider myself as a rookie even tho I've been around a lil while, I've probably asked as many questions and been a thorn in more peoples arse's than most and everyone has helped me unconditionally. Gents like Bill, Greg, Luke, Ken, Jim, Jeff and Steve (to name a few) have put up with my ignorance and helped me along all the way, and never once belittled me, and if it wasn't for Dave, I wouldn't be here and I would be totally clueless to SML's, that poor guy has been bombarded with questions from me for the last 5 years and he always seems to be correct with his advice and answers. (Lord that hurt typing that one ) I've made some great friends here and that's what I like about this place, we all share a passion for guns, hunting and shooting, I'd just like to see it get back to the way it was (while still progressing). There are lots of talented people here, I hate to see any of them "withdrawl" from the board because they are tired of "the b.s." (for lack of a better term). Everyone has an opinion and not everyone will ever be in 100% agreement on everything, that's their right and that's ok, that's what makes the world go round, but I think as adults and a collective group we could do a lil better about how we handle ourselves and our opinions/comments, we used to. I know there will be some heat sometimes, that's unavoidable and to be expected. A big reason I started this thread was there has been another change I have noticed, folks like Dave D, Savage Shooter, Wilm's, Carlos, Zen, 45Omega have for the most part, vanished. Guys like this were a wealth of information and I loved seeing what they had to say and show. Even Josh, who we all know is always busy blasting away with his cannons testing and developing, don't chime in nearly as often as he used to. It got me to wondering, are they just busy? Moved on to other things? Or have they grown tired of all the commotion and elected to step aside? Remember, different strokes for different folks, so whether you shoot a $300 H&R or a $4,000 custom gun, a saboted 50 cal or a full form 416, or something in between, we are all on common ground, we love to hunt, shoot and tinker with guns, and as long as we end up with what we set out to achieve as individuals, then life is good...and we should be thankful and respectful for everyone here and all their help, input and contributions, we make each other better as a group. I'll even give props to Jeff and Tom for building some amazing guns and introducing new ideas and technologies, it takes talent, skill and a whole lot more to get where you guys are at, and your contributions are appreciated, that being said, the cost of your guns doesn't fit everyone's budget, and that's ok, for those that want and can afford such fine rifles, that's ok too, no harm no foul, either way.... Once again, I am not trying to lay blame, single anyone out, or start a ruckus, just expressing what I see and feel. Thanks for the feedback all and I apologize if I didn't mention a name where credit is due, there's just too many to think of after working a midnight, so I just threw out some names off the top of my head, definitely not all inclusive lists. I'm done rambling on and sorry for all the babble..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 10:31:45 GMT -5
Sounded like a pretty speech to me, well said
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Post by rangeball on Aug 21, 2014 10:43:08 GMT -5
A big reason I started this thread was there has been another change I have noticed, folks like Dave D, Savage Shooter, Wilm's, Carlos, Zen, 45Omega have for the most part, vanished. Guys like this were a wealth of information and I loved seeing what they had to say and show. Even Josh, who we all know is always busy blasting away with his cannons testing and developing, don't chime in nearly as often as he used to. It got me to wondering, are they just busy? Moved on to other things? Or have they grown tired of all the commotion and elected to step aside? I've been here since the beginning of this board and a few years of the old one, and there has always been a lull during the summer months. In fact there's been more discussion and things being worked on this summer than any other I've witnessed. At this point I'm hoping cooler weather and approaching season openers brings these guys and some others not mentioned out of the woodwork. It would be a d**n shame if they quit posting. A great loss for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 11:27:47 GMT -5
I agree.... The board has taken on a different flavor. Good or bad I don't know... Good for the ones who like to push the limits not so for the ones like me who are primarily hunters.. I'm perfectly content with my old Savage ML and Remington ML conversion shooting them both at a lowly 2700fps / sub MOA out to 400yds... Puts those deer down every year... Anytime someone dictates that he knows it all and has all the answers it causes problems in the ranks. I grew up in the middle of the old Model 70 verses Model 700 debates.... My family would argue for hours on who had the best rifle and caliber... When they got tired of that the debate would start on who had the best pickup.... I guess it's all good.... Just glad I came along when I did.. Zen
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Post by 10ga on Aug 21, 2014 14:45:58 GMT -5
All good stuff. I came here in 08 and am glad I did. I visit every day and try to use these old eyes to look and see the new guys posting and think about where I was back then. No I'm not going to shoot LRM primers, I'm not going to get a die and concentrate on sabotless, I shoot single powders, I would have loved to get to the KY challenge but forces kept me away. I mostly shoot to hunt. I like to shoot and like to hunt. If I get to KY next year I would probably shoot a smoker White sabotless, LOL, and it is a very accurate hammer. I can put a good BDC scope on it and probably shoot with most anybody at known ranges. Why did I go SML? Well I hate to have to clean my rifles every day, especially as I hunt every day the weather is decent and that means lots of cleaning and care if you got a smoker. Yes, now I'm an addict and having "built" or upgraded 6 SML I like those kinds of projects. And yes some of the discussions get VERY tedious and boring, best LRM primer holder/best breech plug design/best barrel etc... adinfinitum... I am sure there are people who have visited and with a first glance have dismissed the board as a bunch of nitpicking - AR - OCD guys. We know the board is far from that. It sorta like car guys, some think if you don't have an Italian or French or German sporter U R backards, well there is a whole bunch more guys driving pickup trucks than imported sporters. An sum ov dem PUs are NICE. Lets have a forum for all of us and have sum fun.
Perhaps setting up some new sub-forums for the beginner and easy stuff vs the advanced and trail blazing would alleviate having to filter through all the "mine is bigger than yours" swag.
Biggest deer I ever killed was with a 50 cal PRB at 11 yards out of a Cabellas Traditional Hawken style shooting 90 gr of Swiss and a RWS musket cap ignition. scores 196 and won the DGIF/Isaac Walton Eastern Virginia game show ML class in summer of 95.
Please save me from SMLs that cost over a K and don't kill any better than a $700 MLII or a $450 H&R conversion.
Best to all, 10 ga
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Post by dannoboone on Aug 21, 2014 20:28:39 GMT -5
So far, you "newer" guys have been seeing nothing compared to the wars on here of years gone by. Comparatively, there have been only a few "sparring matches". What's more, I have learned SOMETHING from those sparring, even when they are sparring. There was a time when the late, great Rick Bibby was beginning his testing with pressures, duplexing, and and changing the caliber of the 10MLII. A big-mouthed know-it-all "Legend-in-His-Own-Mind" came on here like he owned the board and began admonishing, bad mouthing and trashing Rick and the rest of us who were attempting to take the 10MLII to higher levels. We couldn't have one single discussion of the matter without the big-mouth getting into it and lecturing about going beyond "the book loads". That was the only time I sat screaming at the poor computer screen on ANY board!!! Had he had his way, this board would be dead....long gone, just like another in which he was the Moderator. After all, you can discuss book loads just so much until it becomes of no interest to all. At least those sparring now are just having differences about making things better for the sport of SML, and bring up new ideas. My own biggest complaint is that it gets too expensive trying to keep up with them. As long as they don't get the attitude that it's "my way or the highway", or trying to trash each other off the board, I can put up with a little bickering.
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Post by esshup on Aug 22, 2014 0:49:26 GMT -5
Danno:
Is this the 3rd or 4th version of Dougs? I've lost count. I remember when Duplex was a dirty word and it was something that was too dangerous to use (in some peoples minds). Heck, I was on one of the pig hunts with the different members and didn't dare say that I was using a duplex load that RB helped me with. (RIP)
I have a ML-II that he did some work on, and that's one gun that will never be sold. (Thanks Dwight!!)
I'm not here much because it's all dialed in, and I have my own business now that takes more of my time than when I worked for somebody else.
How many here now remember what a "kitchen sink" load was?
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Post by cowhunter on Aug 22, 2014 11:59:33 GMT -5
I want to hate new guys with new ideas, but the more you talk to Jeff the more you like him, and when someone has a great idea, like the Kentucky Challenge, you just have to join in. Jeff welcomes members to copy him and we should do just that. I like that Rossman40 checked out this idea of a yearly meeting/competition. It seems to have been a social and learning success. I don't care that it is good advertising. He is the only one willing to put out the effort and I'll be at the next one. Any sniping I see may be caused by a natural competitiveness between guys who I think may end up friends. They limited themselves properly and this thread may remind us all to play nice. I do join with Ohioguy in liking the good-natured tenor and general helpfulness of this Board. I do take exception to Fishawk inventing a new bushing every few months just to soak us. Next he will hit us up with a bushing pyramid scheme.
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Post by fishhawk on Aug 22, 2014 12:06:19 GMT -5
Phil, I told you when you drew up the disclaimer for the "scheme" to keep it a secret and see how long it took the masses to catch on. Everyone but attorneys think I'm not not charging enough.
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Post by rambler on Aug 22, 2014 12:51:59 GMT -5
My first impression of this message board was very good and hasn't changed. I've read some mildly heated debates but it turned out all good. I think this thread helped to clear the air and get on with the main theme of an exchange or coop if you will of information, advice and new techniques.
I do have one thing I'd like to get off of my chest. I would really like to attend the next Kentucky Challenge, if anything as a spectator just to take in all the neat stuff and shooting.
However, I did note in one post, in one of the threads about the Challenge, that someone was barfing apparently from over indulging in some adult beverages.
Was that just a one time thing or is this the norm??
Don't mean to be a party pooper, I've certainly tied one on a time or two myself.... but doesn't the time and place factor play a role here? Just my 2 cents.... I hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes...I mean all this for the good
Thanks for all the tips and advice out there guys
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Post by Alabama on Aug 22, 2014 13:08:46 GMT -5
There was plenty of beer at the challenge, but no drinking during shooting. A big fire, lots of new friends, good food, lots and lots of conversation about everything, made the time and place right to drink some cold ones!! I drank my share and Cowhunter's share. Didn't want it to go to waste!
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Post by madcityhoosier on Aug 22, 2014 14:35:19 GMT -5
SNIP However, I did note in one post, in one of the threads about the Challenge, that someone was barfing apparently from over indulging in some adult beverages. Was that just a one time thing or is this the norm?? SNIP I can't say if it's a one-time thing for that particular person or not, but I will say this: he was really cracking us up around the campfire on Friday night. There was another guy there who probably went through a 12 pack in under two hours, but he was pretty sedate. I didn't touch a brew the entire weekend, as that's not really my thing. Prior to the KY Challenge, I had personal correspondence with another member who expressed some reservation about the potential for drunken roudiness. I doubt that member touched a brew all weekend either. I don't think the drinking and BSing around the campfire was all that bad... but it did keep me up past my bedtime (I was sleeping at the shoot location, and the banter around the fire was quite loud!). I did see some beers being consumed during the shooting on Saturday. I cannot say whether it was shooters who were done shooting, or if there was drinking and shooting going on. I can't say. I will say that for the most part, someone was always watching you for unsafe/dangerous operation of SML. Twice we caught a guy forget to pull the powder funnel out of his muzzle. I didn't really see any unsafe behavior though, but I kept my eye out. There was a young person there (10 years old?) who wanted to shoot his .22 rifle and pistol. That made me WAY more nervous than anything I saw the adults doing the entire day. Well, there was the time the cannon had a hangfire...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 16:03:58 GMT -5
Yes there was beer at the challenge but I never witnessed anyone shooting and drinking and I kept a pretty good eye on everything going on (just the way I am).
obviously there might have been some over indulgence after hours but everything was civil and no harm done.
No Phil I didn't get drunk, I haven't had one in a lot of years and likely never will.
the young lad shooting the .22 was supervised by his father and I kept my eyes open to see. My guys at work call me Hawkeye because I see everything so they don't even try to hide stuff any more. observant? that's me.
did I see anything that made me cringe? only the funnels in the brake and they got caught as soon as the gun hit the bench. Safe shoot? yes I think so. next year with more shooters in attendance more precautions will likely need to be put in place but we have a year to do that. Im sure Jeff will talk it over with several others and make sure all is well before it gets set up.
I see no reason for anyone to be overly concerned about attending next year based on what transpired last weekend. we had a really big time and I think everyone that attended were glad they made whatever drive they made to get there. If I didn't fire a shot I would have still had a great time..
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Post by hankinsrfls on Aug 22, 2014 23:14:30 GMT -5
Guys... I have been reading this thread and I was informed (by personal mail)that it was aimed at me. I believe in his mail he said " The guys that attended the shoot seem to think you are a nice guy, to me and others you are antagonistic, egotistical and irritating...
I want to say that I received a lot of razzing when I joined this board. I took it without poise. I learned who was who and how to take them and their since of humor. I never new what was going to come from cowhunter and if you didn't know him some of his stuff could be considered just plain crazy talk. Now that I have a chance to razz a few of them back it seems to me that some of them are jumping on the defensive side. It is all in good fun. MAN is the most competitive creature on earth, so it is natural to make challenges and say, my truck is bigger than yours, My deer has more points, my fish was bigger, its just the way we are made. But we have a few that don't like to or can't stand to be corrected or proven wrong.
One of the guys at the shoot told me I had a strong personality,,, but that was a good thing. I will get straight to the point, try to make it as clear as I can as quickly as I can and express my opinion, I don't want to sound like I know everything about smokeless muzzleloaders because I don't. I learn quite a bit by reading this board. If my post offends some of you then I am sorry but that's the way I post and if correcting a post that has bad information in it is the wrong thing to do then I guess I will be the bad guy on Doug's board. We can't afford to post bad information, we don't want anyone to get hurt or even killed shooting their smokeless rifles, or waist money ordering the wrong part(s) because so and so said it is what they use when in fact it ain't what they use, they just misspelled a word or completely typed the wrong thing.... We all do it and correction is needed on the board. so don't get to offended when it happens to you.
I came to this board, not to sell my rifles, but to introduce you all to a different way to ignite your loads. I read over and over about ignition problems with the primers and powders you were using. It has been blamed on everything from not enough pressure to it was too cold. I was challenged to test my system, so I did. In -4 degrees with a powder that was said to be impossible to ignite at those temperatures, I had no problems and a 50 FPS slower velocity than I get when its 90 degrees. I tested it with drop in fit bullets, still no problems. I tested it with the lightest bullets I could get, 185 grain drop ins almost, still not problems. I tested it in the poring rain and blasted my gun with a high pressure water hose, still no problems. I built a 416 to test the extreme pressures, shot loads of 125 grains of H4350, still not problems. Is my system better than the next guys,, I believe it is,,,,,,and so do several others that attended the shoot and got to see it in action...to hear Ford claim, their truck is the best, Chevy claims the same thing, but we all know the Dodge Cummins Diesel rules in the truck world. I don't expect to sell everyone on this board my ignition system, but if you are looking for something different it might work for you. I do thank those that have bought it and I am sure you will be happy with it.
I don't think I have ever said "buy my rifle it's better" I only wanted to help those that needed or wanted a more reliable system. Nothing worse than it not going off when you need it most.. Now on to another topic....
I see where someone was concerned that there was drinking at the shoot.... YES THERE WAS. When have you seen 25 men get together for all you can eat boiled shrimp and pulled pork and not have a beer. I don't think the first can was popped until after dark on Friday and all the shooting was over. On Saturday,, The cook (a total non shooter) was probably drinking by noon but he was 40 yards from the shooting range manning the smoker (the one that cooks meat) you talk to him about the smokers we have and he wants to know how you put a rack of ribs in that little hole. As for the rest of us, well everyone kept it well under control and there was absolutely no one drunk or even close to it on the range. If you are a non believer in a few beers and some foul language then you probable should avoid large get togethers of men with guns...
The one guy that was barfing, was it two many beers Friday night or was it the 13 pounds of shrimp he tried to eat,,, or maybe it was because he worked third shift and didn't get any sleep the day of the shoot, when he should have been sleeping he was driving to the shoot. Glad you made it ole buddy and that you kicked but,, hung over or not.... LOL> oneshotike is on my top list of best buddies,
As for the little boy that shot his 22... That was my nephew Garrett. He is 12 not 10 and he is very small for his age. He has killed more deer than you can shake a stick at and his longest shot with a 25-05 is 350 yards year before last. Dropped her in her tracks. Last year he anchored a 6 point buck with one shot from a 375HCR during youth season. His Dad, (the guy that made the 3 gallons of salsa) was standing directly behind him the hole time. How do you tell a kid he cant shoot when he was running and re-setting the gongs for us all day. I shot the first shot from his 22 to make sure it was on target and it was. He rang that gong almost every shot. If he shot a total of 40 rounds that would be tops.
Now, I hope my presents on this board is a positive thing most of the time, I am sure once in awhile I will offend or say something that might rub some the wrong way, but I think each and everyone of us does that from time to time. If we don't we ain't saying much. Now I am here to stay so "can't we all just be friends"?
Jeff.
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Post by cowhunter on Aug 22, 2014 23:48:30 GMT -5
I hate to repeat myself but Tom post warned me explicitly about powder funnels. Before I remembered to convey that to my brother we blew one up. They are virtually invisible when on the opposite end of a big muzzle brake. Mine is now permanently attached to a keychain with the auto-retracting cable. If the keychain is attached to my belt it is impossible to leave on the muzzle brake. If it is not attached to my belt it dangles off the end of the barrel and is very obvious. I'm sure some others can think up more effective safety systems but do something or have Hillbill around.
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Post by Alabama on Aug 23, 2014 8:21:16 GMT -5
Cowhunter, the flaw I saw to the powder funnel, I personally had to remind two gents to remove it before shooting, the funnel is the same diameter as the brake, made out of the same material and the same color. I believe a simple safety feature of painting the funnel red, orange or some other color would help. I can tell they are a disaster waiting to happen!! The funnel Bill designed for me has to be removed as the rod will not pass through so I wont have an issue with leaving funnel in barrel. I'm sure with a little thought from the builder a safer funnel can be designed easily.
The kid was well supervised by his father and I always saw the kid use safe practice with his rifle. Plus he is a darn good shot. Though he believes his .308 kicked harder than his dads .300wsp ( I believe that was the caliber)
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Post by squeeze on Aug 23, 2014 8:41:33 GMT -5
When you have something you know is good, and are confident enough to prove it, in any way, to anyone. Kudos! You are proud, confident and have put in the time and effort to earn it. Carry on. We all call ourselves sportsmen, and really have you ever been amongst a team, or even crowd of fans where there wasnt some friendly razzing? Thats just common banter for the elevated adrenaline of competition, or the focus towards success in the sporting arena. Its just hard sometimes to convey facial expression or body language on written forum. Many times written prose can be taken several ways, even reflected on differently if first read with differing mindset, or attitude, reflected by events of each participants personal day. Everyone, will never get along with everyone in any gathering. But the differing mindset and opinion is also good and healthy. If everyone thought the same, or agreed on everything, new ideas, and angles of approach could never be tested, nurtured, or improved upon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 9:22:54 GMT -5
Guys... I have been reading this thread and I was informed (by personal mail)that it was aimed at me. I believe in his mail he said " The guys that attended the shoot seem to think you are a nice guy, to me and others you are antagonistic, egotistical and irritating... I want to say that I received a lot of razzing when I joined this board. I took it without poise. I learned who was who and how to take them and their since of humor. I never new what was going to come from cowhunter and if you didn't know him some of his stuff could be considered just plain crazy talk. Now that I have a chance to razz a few of them back it seems to me that some of them are jumping on the defensive side. It is all in good fun. MAN is the most competitive creature on earth, so it is natural to make challenges and say, my truck is bigger than yours, My deer has more points, my fish was bigger, its just the way we are made. But we have a few that don't like to or can't stand to be corrected or proven wrong. One of the guys at the shoot told me I had a strong personality,,, but that was a good thing. I will get straight to the point, try to make it as clear as I can as quickly as I can and express my opinion, I don't want to sound like I know everything about smokeless muzzleloaders because I don't. I learn quite a bit by reading this board. If my post offends some of you then I am sorry but that's the way I post and if correcting a post that has bad information in it is the wrong thing to do then I guess I will be the bad guy on Doug's board. We can't afford to post bad information, we don't want anyone to get hurt or even killed shooting their smokeless rifles, or waist money ordering the wrong part(s) because so and so said it is what they use when in fact it ain't what they use, they just misspelled a word or completely typed the wrong thing.... We all do it and correction is needed on the board. so don't get to offended when it happens to you. I came to this board, not to sell my rifles, but to introduce you all to a different way to ignite your loads. I read over and over about ignition problems with the primers and powders you were using. It has been blamed on everything from not enough pressure to it was too cold. I was challenged to test my system, so I did. In -4 degrees with a powder that was said to be impossible to ignite at those temperatures, I had no problems and a 50 FPS slower velocity than I get when its 90 degrees. I tested it with drop in fit bullets, still no problems. I tested it with the lightest bullets I could get, 185 grain drop ins almost, still not problems. I tested it in the poring rain and blasted my gun with a high pressure water hose, still no problems. I built a 416 to test the extreme pressures, shot loads of 125 grains of H4350, still not problems. Is my system better than the next guys,, I believe it is,,,,,,and so do several others that attended the shoot and got to see it in action...to hear Ford claim, their truck is the best, Chevy claims the same thing, but we all know the Dodge Cummins Diesel rules in the truck world. I don't expect to sell everyone on this board my ignition system, but if you are looking for something different it might work for you. I do thank those that have bought it and I am sure you will be happy with it. I don't think I have ever said "buy my rifle it's better" I only wanted to help those that needed or wanted a more reliable system. Nothing worse than it not going off when you need it most.. Now on to another topic.... I see where someone was concerned that there was drinking at the shoot.... YES THERE WAS. When have you seen 25 men get together for all you can eat boiled shrimp and pulled pork and not have a beer. I don't think the first can was popped until after dark on Friday and all the shooting was over. On Saturday,, The cook (a total non shooter) was probably drinking by noon but he was 40 yards from the shooting range manning the smoker (the one that cooks meat) you talk to him about the smokers we have and he wants to know how you put a rack of ribs in that little hole. As for the rest of us, well everyone kept it well under control and there was absolutely no one drunk or even close to it on the range. If you are a non believer in a few beers and some foul language then you probable should avoid large get togethers of men with guns... The one guy that was barfing, was it two many beers Friday night or was it the 13 pounds of shrimp he tried to eat,,, or maybe it was because he worked third shift and didn't get any sleep the day of the shoot, when he should have been sleeping he was driving to the shoot. Glad you made it ole buddy and that you kicked but,, hung over or not.... LOL> oneshotike is on my top list of best buddies, As for the little boy that shot his 22... That was my nephew Garrett. He is 12 not 10 and he is very small for his age. He has killed more deer than you can shake a stick at and his longest shot with a 25-05 is 350 yards year before last. Dropped her in her tracks. Last year he anchored a 6 point buck with one shot from a 375HCR during youth season. His Dad, (the guy that made the 3 gallons of salsa) was standing directly behind him the hole time. How do you tell a kid he cant shoot when he was running and re-setting the gongs for us all day. I shot the first shot from his 22 to make sure it was on target and it was. He rang that gong almost every shot. If he shot a total of 40 rounds that would be tops. Now, I hope my presents on this board is a positive thing most of the time, I am sure once in awhile I will offend or say something that might rub some the wrong way, but I think each and everyone of us does that from time to time. If we don't we ain't saying much. Now I am here to stay so "can't we all just be friends"? Jeff. +1...I didn't know what to expect from Jeff or the rest of the guys that showed up..after ten minutes of our arrival I knew Jeff wasn't a bad guy after all and we all were going to have a great weekend playing with our big boy toys....Garrett was a big help and very well mannered ,he saved me from walking numerous times with his 4 wheeler.... It was one of the best times I've ever had even though I was not so hot on the bench....Thanks again Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 10:31:06 GMT -5
This thread was started to be a "reality check" for everyone as a whole, it was NOT intended to single any one person out. It was just to try to point out that there seems to a good bit of stick throwing in every direction, from every direction, more so than normal, and I thought maybe this would help lighten the mood and remind EVERYONE that we are all in this together. I'm bummed I couldnt make the challenge cause I know it would have been a blast and I'm going to make every attempt to get there next year. This board is full of great people and nothing would be better than being able to meet everyone and hang out. Who knows, maybe next year I can Jeff a run with a gun that Bill built, shooting bullets I size with a die Jeff makes...shooting a duplex load...lol I doubt it, but it'll be fun shooting and hanging out. Again, this wasnt started to create a war, it was started to try to stop them before they start. My apologies if anyone feels singled out or threatened, that wasn't the intent. It was strictly my observations and opinions.
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Post by ping on Aug 23, 2014 10:49:57 GMT -5
I been reading this board for a while now, and even though I am a newbe I know that there is always going to be friendly competition and sometimes it gets a little heated.. It's like argueing with the wife, at the end of the day I still sleep in her bed. So I think we could all be friends and get along. I have learned a lot from this board and I am in the market for a SML. I have called every builder I can find on the net and got prices, and compaired each and everyone. I will say Jeff is aleays there to answer my questions and I am going to place and order with him this week for a SML with all the bells and whistles. It will be my first, only and problably my last SML but I decided to do it once and get the best I can. I think Hankins Rifles is the best bang for my buck. So hopefully I will be able to attend the shoot next year and shoot my SML with the rest of you guys. All keep up the good work and smoke a biggin this year...
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