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Post by Richard on Aug 14, 2014 15:06:17 GMT -5
Last week I meant to re-shoot the 5/65........Clays/H-4198---200 FTX load but mistakenly shot 5/60 So this week I got my S__t together and shot 5/65. The only mistake I made was to shoot a fouler with a different powder and charge..........It was 10/50----4227/H-4198. A recent thread talked about changing powders and having to shoot one or two with the new powder prior to the group............and I did not. Who knows, maybe the first shot was destined not to go in the group anyway So, eliminating the first shot which made the five shot group right at one inch, the last four bug-holed in ..586". My thought after shooting that 1/4" five shot group was that the load was probably capable of putting five shots in an inch or less on a regular basis so, it did not disappoint. Sticking with the same load I moved to my 200 yard target, still using the cross hairs (which put the 100 yard group 2" high) This put the group just about dead center vertical wise. No reason for the 2nd. shot going low. If anything, the first shot which was 60 fps slower should have maybe been low? But 2" for five shots with a cheap A - - bullet.........and a blem to boot? I think is acceptable. Moving right along with the same load I moved to my 300 yard target and again, it did not disappoint with a 3" five shot group. (S) Sticky primers are still a on and off again problem that require a second hit to loosen My last group at 100 yards was a load that I had been carrying around for a few weeks wanting to try.........NO foulers again, and while it did not shoot nearly as well as the 4198, it could be tweaked if one happen to have a lot of it on hand. I realize the information I put on the forum is not in the same category as the stuff Earnhardt and Cowhunter are playing with but hope it is of use to those "normal" range deer hunters. Richard
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Post by rangeball on Aug 14, 2014 15:42:59 GMT -5
Excellent.
Do you think the sticking primers are from the faster booster ramping pressure up quickly? What size flash hole do you have in the bushing?
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Post by ET on Aug 14, 2014 15:51:25 GMT -5
Richard
You’ve done some fine work with the 200FTX load to say the least. This load would definitely roll over some coyotes even if it’s too fragile for deer. If they ever come out with a 200 Mono-Flex bullet in this diameter you would have one nice deer slayer. I’m surprised you made such a statement in your last sentence. The majority of responding shooters here are 45 Cal at the moment and even though they don’t respond as often I feel confident that your efforts are being observed for future reference more than you think. Granted the next generation of ML pioneers is carrying the torch of interest at the moment. But when development of the .416 reaches a peak and excitement dwindles I have to wonder what’s next for the ML advancement?
Ed
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Post by rambler on Aug 14, 2014 15:53:30 GMT -5
Richard, I watch, read, and learn from your posts religiously. Keep up the most excellent work
rambler
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Post by 153 on Aug 14, 2014 18:30:34 GMT -5
Richard I always read your any post I see your name attached too. I live in middle NC on the VA/NC line. My longest shot would be 295 yards(laser range finder) and all of your posts interest me. RB started me on the duplex shooting when the majority of people though he may have been a bit touched. Not many times during ML season here where temps get below 32F, but with the duplex it is one less thing too worry about. Nothing wrong with others shooting 500-1000 yards but I have no place to even practice that far. Keep up with the good work with your posts many people I am sure enjoy them but maybe like me do not respond every time.
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Post by Richard on Aug 14, 2014 19:39:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the nice comments: Don't get me wrong! What Earnhardt, Deadeye, Cowhunter and a few others are doing is good information and I applaud them for doing their testing. On the other hand, I tend to be a "realist!" I have been around guns and hunting all my life and I know for a fact that the majority of deer are shot at way less than 300 yards. I also feel the majority of people who frequent this forum are not about to shoot over 300 yards. To do this, number one, you have to have the place to do it? Number two, you have to do more practicing than probably 95% of the shooters do. Earnhardt has the place to do this type of shooting in his back yard........most do not? I try to stick with stuff that your average shooter/hunter can sink his teeth into. Not worrying what size hole he needs in his bushing and the diameter of his flame channel, does he need a chamber, does he need a muzzle brake, will his shoulder hold out for a 350 gr. bullet at 3000 fps etc, etc.? I push simple duplex loads because they work and are reliable. A sticking primer is not that big of a deal? Just open and re close the bolt and strike it again. Your are basically stuck with ONE shot at your deer so whats an extra few seconds to re-strike the primer IF that happens? I am using a .023" bushing that I was given by Earnhardt to see what it would do and its durability. It is now still under .026" after over 600 shots. I have also been given a .028" bushing but have not put it in yet as with enough shooting my bushing will eventually get there. I have shot with vent liners opened up to .0445" and gotten good results and I have shot the standard .031" and also gotten good results so don't ask me which size is the best? For me, the SML is a way to play with tons of loads to try and find the holy grail. I could probably take any of the loads I have been playing with and kill deer. As a benchrest shooter, my game is to try and get my group as small as possible.................NOT necessarily centered in the bull. That is just the matter of a scope adjustment. Since I shoot so many different bullets and weighs, I stay away from constantly changing the POI to look "pretty". When it comes time to actually hunt something, then I will correct the zero. If you look at the above targets, you will notice that even at 100 yards, the POI is to the right and also at 200 and 300. I might switch to a 300 gr. bullet and it will be dead on horizontally but 4" low at 100? Then I play with my mil dots. Richard
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Post by dhayes on Aug 14, 2014 20:03:58 GMT -5
Keep up the good work!
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Aug 14, 2014 20:46:54 GMT -5
Keep up the good work Richard. And thank you very much Drop
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 22:21:35 GMT -5
I always watch and read your threads. Lots of good info and gives me something to think about even though I don't really need too do any more thinking.
Honestly I'm with you the cheap bullets actually perform allot better than people give them credit for. At the moment I'm shooting the 327 MH only cause I wanted to try them. However the 250 SST has been very good to me and when I run out of the MH it will be very hard for me to get another 50. I love the idea of tinkering with different bullets which is why I'm going to figure or how to make the Linebauh experiment bullet but season starts September 19th for me and I need to get my drop data figured out. I might shoot a little farther than most but I practice more than most. Maybe not as much as you Richard or the other members you mentioned but I enjoy figuring this stuff out.
After this season I'll be going to this new bushing. Your post do make a difference and help allot of people. Don't down play yourself.
One day I'd like to meet you and other members and have a day of shooting and learning.
Thanks for your efforts.
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Post by Richard on Aug 15, 2014 8:15:31 GMT -5
Thanks all! Richard
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Post by edge on Aug 15, 2014 9:52:42 GMT -5
Very impressive, that's a lot of shots downrange with great accuracy.
edge.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 10:24:17 GMT -5
Richard, I'm not trying to "out do" any one with the .416's. One of the greatest benefits of shooting the .416's, is that what we've been able to figure out with the .416 with 209 primers, relates to the .45's. Severe erosion with Retumbo and heavy bullets lead to us using the T-100 bushings. Severe 209 primer damage in the .416, led us to enlarged primer flame channels. (Thanks bestill) I know you're a great advocate for using boosted loads, but initially boosted loads were a necessity to get certain powders to ignite in various conditions. Boosted loads also help with ES's in almost all loads. But 3 of the 4, .416 groups with H1000 I shot last week had an ES in the single digits, without a booster and a non-hammer down bullet. All because of the bigger bushing and opened primer channels. Now we can use large orifice bushings with opened primer channels, in the .416's (as well as in the 45's) and not need a booster. And no primer damage is seen. Even with huge payloads of powder and heavy bullets. I always wondered how the .416 Swinglock guns could use 209 primers with large orifice bushings and Retumbo. With no adverse effects on the primers. Now we know.
It's fun trying to figure this stuff out.
Thanks for all the testing Richard!
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Post by Richard on Aug 15, 2014 20:44:12 GMT -5
Thanks Edge......... Earnhardt: I was applauding your testing not criticizing! Believe me, if I was doing some big game (bigger than deer or at very long range) along the lines of say elk where the range "could" be long or maybe a brown bear hunt or say and African hunt for the really big critters, I would be right in the mix with you. My feeling is that the "majority" of "deer" hunters using these SML's are not shooting their critters at more than 300 yards and the need for very specific types of bullets, powders specific bore sizes etc. may be more than they actually need. I just don't want to see shooters new to SML'ing to get overwhelmed and discouraged. You have a good following of members specifically interested in what you do and that is good. I try to cater my testing to those "normal" range deer hunters. I have been trying to stick with bullets (low cost) and powders readily available. I show very little Vihta Vuori loads since it is hard (and expensive) to find. Richard
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Post by rambler on Aug 19, 2014 20:44:26 GMT -5
If it has already been stated I apologize, but what kind of primers are being used in these tests?
Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 4:07:32 GMT -5
good info Rich and good shooting
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Post by Richard on Aug 20, 2014 16:31:38 GMT -5
Thanks Bill!................Rambler: I use Winchester 209's exclusively. I have been using them since I believe, around 2007 when I first got my .50 Savage. I had a few thousand on hand from shotgun loading and just continued using them. I have tried CCI 209 Mag. primers but they never did anything for me? Richard
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Post by rambler on Aug 20, 2014 16:59:38 GMT -5
Richard,
Thank you for your response sw uses those primers as well. I need to get some. What am I going to do with these 7 boxes of Federal's I've got lol
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Post by Richard on Aug 20, 2014 18:15:28 GMT -5
Shoot them! They will work. Richard
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